2016 New Hampshire Primaries

Illegal immigrants have a net positive impact on our economy as a whole.

 

No chance in hell.

 

Straight up boss. Look it up.

 

I have looked it up

 

The studies I've seen estimate the average illegal immigrant uses $14k mores year in govt services than they pay in taxes. Even using the most generous multiplier effect (the multiplier numbers are something I personally feel are dubious at best btw) I refuse to believe that the benefit of the lower cost of goods and services could possibly reach that number per immigrant.

 

You do realize this isn't even a debate among experts right?

 

Complete horseshit.

 

You are an accounting major right? Let's use your brain a little.

Now I've seen studies that claim illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they use in govt services. I have no idea how they come up with that, but logically we know it can't possibly be true. Even if we assume their income is being reported to the irs on average (questionable at best), the average low income worker pays zero in income taxes. The average low income worker doesn't own a home or other property so pays zero in property taxes. What does that leave? A very small amount of social security tax and Sales tax. Now many states don't tax food. So let's generously say they spend most of their income on non food items and pay 8 percent sales taxes. If someone is making $25k a year that comes to what $1,600 a year? That's going to pay for what they cost?

So the only possible outcome that makes sense where illegals pay for themselves is if the lower cost of goods and services makes up the difference. Find me a study that admits there is zero chance they pay more in taxes than they cost and somehow comes up with a rational that they pay for the difference in lower costs and i might believe it. I haven't seen it. On the other hand I've seen multiple studies that say they cost tens of thousands per person in govt services over taxes. That I believe.

And btw all those studies also don't take into account any possible impact of lower wages for American citizens. Same people that want minimum wage increases tell us illegal immigration has a positive impact on American workers. What?

 

Tenny, when you say "cresting waves," do you mean that you are under the impression that there are an ever growing number of people illegally entering the country? I don't think that is true.

 

Stuff I've seen suggests we are basically net neutral from 2008, but been very positive the past couple of years (negative in the depths of the recession).

 

"There is a fairly broad consensus that the present value of the long-run net fiscal impact of unauthorized immigration, at all levels of government combined, is small but positive—meaning that immigration reduces overall budget deficits.15 The long-run fiscal impact at the federal level is strongly positive; however, the impact at the state and local levels is negative. There is also a clear understanding that while the negative state and local impacts are largely concentrated in the states and localities that receive most of the new immigrants, the federal impact is shared evenly across the nation."

" When the payroll tax contributions of immigrants are taken into account, the Urban Institute found that the foreign born constitute a net fiscal windfall to the public sector of some $20 billion a year."

I'll take the Economic Policy Institute and the Cato Institute over Droski's rambling, thanks. Again, this is not a contentious point among economists.

 

In terms of capitalism and labor markets, do you see this whole phenomenon as an understandable byproduct of desiring cheap labor over all other factors? I guess I'm trying to temporarily separate this from the political rhetoric. I don't just see this as people breaking laws because they're lawless. I see it as a fundamental conflict between economic forces and legal/political lines.

One that isn't easily set right with a wall and millions of deportations.

 

Wow an institute that's mandate is advocating for low income workers is saying illegal immigration is a positive impact? Shocking.

It's absolute ridiculousness to suggest it's an issue not for up for debate for economists.

 

The magnet of our social services cannot be underestimated. That is why we gotten supply well beyond the demand for low skilled workers

 

Here's a very detailed study from the other side of the isle: http://www.heritage.org/research/re...ful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-us-taxpayer

 

This is definitely where we disconnect on this. I don't think those guys standing outside of Home Depot are getting much in the way of social services. Or the ones picking fruit around here. Or the ones that clean buildings. I'm not going to pretend like I know how many are somewhere else collecting services because obviously I wouldn't see them. I just see them either working hard, or on their way to work (wearing construction stuff or bright roadside shirts), or after work. I'm also not looking to pick fruit or clean buildings.

 

Robert Rector. He missed out on another career.

 

Compared to Mexico? You have to think about where they are coming from. Also the magnet of citizenship for any children

 

Heritage Foundation huh? One of its founding trustees said the turn it's taken has made it look like a tea party hack organization, but whatever.

 

I can see the child aspect. To me, that's a shortcoming in the constitution. Canada changed it. Virtually all nations have changed it. We haven't.