About That "Free College" Program

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by Tenacious D, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I truly love whenever a politician calls something "free". Here's the other shoe to drop, right onto the nutsack of the responsible taxpayer.

    Taxing those who saved for college, to pay for those who didn't.

    It's brilliant, really. Isn't it? It sums up his entire Administration.

    Can someone jump in here and defend this, please?

    I look forward to being labeled a money-grubbing racist, in advance.

    Link: http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/...-community-college-youre-not-going-to-like-it
  2. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    Ah, the typical Tenny political post, containing his two required elements:

    1. Link from a hard core right wing "news" site.

    2. Heads off any potential criticism by noting the other side's only card is some kind devious, underhanded sophistry whom is either dumber or more immoral, take your pick. Are we liberals supposed to be cowards or just plain stupid today?

    Otherwise, as far as the question of the two year free college and taxation, I haven't the faintest idea, as I haven't had much of a chance to look at it. However, since I've seen this game from you numerous times, I remain highly circumspect about its veracity.
  3. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    It's a poor plan. It wouldn't shock me to see the IRS trying to come after unrealized income, since we're not serious about pulling in the national debt.
  4. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Founder of the Mike Honcho Fan Club

    I abhor just about any use of the word "free". Nothing has ever been free, ever. One of my favorite books has a passage on that, Starship Troopers:

    (paraphrasing from memory) "To say 'the best things in life are free' is idiotic. Nothing is free. However, you can say 'the best things in life cannot be bought with money'."

    And I have been putting money into 529's since the day we found out we were going to have a baby, and I will be very upset if they change the rules mid-stream on me. I will not have a lot of money in the 529's, but hopefully enough to get my two sons started.
  5. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Aaah, the atypical Un post. Filled with an unbending ability to conveniently miss the forest for the trees, in a failing attempt to obfuscate the inconvenient matter at hand.

    Here is a new quote, from Forbes (Is that "mainstream" enough?):

    So, President Obama's "free college"......

    Is going to be financed by adding taxes to 529 (college savings) plans.....and which will squarely hit "middle class families" the hardest.

    And why, exactly, did middle-class America enjoy these tax-free 529 accounts originate? How did they work, before? Funny you should ask.
    (emphasis mine)

    And what was the effect of these fat-cat Bush-era tax cuts? An apt question, Un. Let's explore it.
    (emphasis mine)

    I can sense your puzzlement at understanding what then occurred, in regards to 529's, after ol' Dubya "blood for oil" Bush's tax cuts. Let's see what effect they had:
    (emphasis mine)

    Yikes. This almost seemed like a REALLY good idea, that a LOT of Americans used to save money for their kid's college fund. It incentivized more Americans to SAVE for college - and it WORKED. IMMEDIATELY. And OVERWHELMINGLY.

    So, what will happen when President Obama repeals these Bush-era tax cuts? The author postulates:
    Sounds ominous. But, then again, there's no way for this guy - or anyone - to know what effect this could have, because it's impossible to predict the future. Sounds to me like this guy might be a racist, and is using a magic 8-ball (also black, a coincidence?) in the support of his rather preposterously baseless claim.

    Now, given that this guy is a racist quack, and who possesses an ignorance which is equally fueled by a racist-based hatred of President Obama, and a complete misunderstanding of both recent economic history and basic math (two qualities that Forbes is known to covet in their reporters) - how does this Grand Dragon see this new tax as affecting middle-class families (read: the ones whom Democrats love, stand for and protect.....just ask them)?

    To be fair, there must be more than one way to interpret "death blow" - perhaps one of our Constitutional scholars on the liberal side of the aisle could aide us in arriving at a less ominous meaning, and a more favorable one.

    This is how I'm going to respond to all of your posts, Un, with your own personalized version of an elementary school child's "Choose Your Own Adventure" format, so as to highlight those correlations which so often, and unsurprisingly, escape you.

    Now, with this out of the way, explain to me how President Obama's "free college" plan is "good", again? Place particular emphasis on "responsible Americans" and "the middle class" in your response.

    Like a big boy, engaged in an adult conversation.

    Pretty please.

    With sugar and sprinkles on top.

    Link: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanell...-tax-hike-on-middle-class-529-college-savers/
  6. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Well, I hate to tell you this, but your money was taxed before you put it in there, and now, thanks to President Obama's "free college".....it'll be taxed when you take it out, even if for tuition.

    If you are like me, you'll have emptied your 529's before the end of month.
  7. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Founder of the Mike Honcho Fan Club

    If this gets a smell of passing, I will definitely do this.
  8. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    And these 529 plans have high fees in general. The only reason to use them is the tax advantage.
  9. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    And in doing so, kids will be less likely to afford or attend college, and (much) more likely to be shouldered with soul-crushing debt, if they do.

    Bonus: Everyone learns that saving is either bad, totally unnecessary, or both.

    What's not to like about this plan, NA?

    Didn't you hear the President say that it was "FREE COLLEGE"? What, do you hate education or something? Racist.
  10. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    If you take the money out and dont use it for education you are supposed to pay taxes. Of course, currently no one is really checking, but emptying your 529s sounds like a bad idea to me.
  11. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

  12. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    I'll move my Roth to pre-tax annuities. I liked the Roth only because it is tax free at withdrawl.
  13. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    capital gains is a little tricky. Most of the gains are due to an inflationary monetary policy over the years an not much increase in purchasing power
  14. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    You'll be paying full boat on the money that comes out. Better off buying an index fund and forgetting about it
  15. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    Spare me your condescending bullshit. I remember this from you in response to IP saying that argumentatively discussing ideas on these boards was productive:

    You (and Hat) are arrogant *******s, who think you're the smartest guys in the room and You learn nothing from these debates, and you teach even less.

    I'm sorry, but you're no better, no matter how much you want to identify me and my beliefs as "cowardly", "stupid", "elementary", whatever pejorative of the day you desire to use as a preemptive strike before the argument even begins.

    And, to be fair, I think this second post is a fairly strong argument to use, but you have to be suck a [Penis] about setting it up that it lessens my desire to take it seriously, especially when it's so hypocritical in the context that you blasted some of your ideological board opposites for, essentially, doing something very similar.

    So, you can take the "elementary school child's version" and shove it. I'm desiring that you don't use the conservative equivalent of the Daily Kos as "proof" and don't begin your argument with some passive-aggressive nonsense (or sometimes overtly aggressive) caveats or ad hominem attacks before the argument even starts. You do this shit all the time. You make a statement or create a position and then say something like "I'm sure I'll just be labeled a money grubbing racist" in the same post. Are we arguing about the 529s or how you might be a money grubbing racist? Or how liberals are cowards? Or stupid? I get that you desire to put your opponents on the defensive immediately by forcing them to defend your personal characterizations, but they really don't have shit to do with your arguments. They effectively muddy the waters, though.

    Just make your damn argument and let it roll.

    Anyway, I do have some issues with this idea of "free" education, but I'm not fully sure how it's going to be worked out, so I'll have to do some research before coming to any conclusions.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015
  16. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    And I certainly wouldn't take the money out of the roth
  17. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    I wouldn't either. No way this passes a republican congress
  18. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    If this happens, which if find very unlikely, I guarantee you it will be income based.
  19. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    Frankly I can't help but think all this is a gotcha moment for Obama. Make the proposal so absurd they have to vote it down and then start talking about how republicans don't want kids to go to college and don't care about education.
  20. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    I'll look into that.

    That said, I don't think this passes.

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