An explanation for religion

The Bible doesn't portray God creating people that he knows will be sent to hell, IMO; although, we can debate Romans 9. Instead he pleads with them on every page of the second half of the OT to repent, to "turn and live." I'll leave it at that because my views are starting to lean slightly unorthodox (though still Biblical), and if the traditional explanations that you get here satisfy you, stick with them. A lot of people whose intellect and character stand tall have been more than okay with that old time religion.

 

We will have to make this happen then.

 

I know it's not stated in the bible that God created people to send to hell. But the bible does state that God is perfect, all knowing, and all powerful. The bible also states that God created mankind out of his own image. This leads us to being created by a perfect God, that knew everything that we would be and do in life, and had the power to make us in anyway he/she saw fit.

If you take all of this as being true, then you would have to say that we don't have free choice.

 

Oh yes, yes they have. Unless I was dreaming when I've heard it with my own ears.

For the record, they piss me off too.

 

One of my biggest struggles is that we were designed with a mechanism that is inherently flawed.

We call it choice, free will, reasoning etc.

The Bible clearly states humanity was created with the mechanism to counter the blind allegiance of the angels.

Which leads to a 1/3 of the angels that have no mechanism to fall from Grace.

In addition, just how powerful is Lucifer?

 

Seriously, a bible round table without oe is a bad idea.

Who else is going to curb stomp Christianity's greatest fraud?

 

If it came from a perfect god, it can't be flawed. Also, the devil could only have as much power, as the all powerful god let him/she have

 

Very short answer, see Garden of Eden.

 

I know the story, but God had to create the tree and God had to know that Eve would take of the fruit. So, this had to be God's master plan.

 

I would say yes. If God had let us remain in a perfect state, we would not have ever had a free will to begin with.

 

This may not make much sense, but it does to me. It's the boss/leader deal, 53. You do what a boss says because you have to. You do what a leader says because you want to. Choosing to follow is much more significant than having to follow.

Scripture evem backs this up to a degree with the being more significant to believe while having never seen over believing after actually seeing.

 

Correct. Then Eve wouldn't have sinned. She would have just done, what God had created her to do in his/her master plan.

 

Definitely a face to face topic as Card suggested but here's some food for thought.

An understanding of what is meant by "free will" is imperative in this conversation. Free will to choose what exactly? Everyone makes voluntary choices every day based on their desires. When it comes choosing Christ of free will I don't believe man to be capable of that and here's why. Man's will is currently in a fallen state to the bondage of sin and as such serves those desires. The nature and desires of sin are in direct conflict with those of God and as we know bring the penalty of death. This would suggest the notion that your will isn't exactly free to begin with because that which is in bondage certainly isn't free right? This is where the grace of God enters the scene. It is through His grace (and mercy) that we have the will to believe in Christ. He chose us...not the other way around. As A-Smith said, this will eventually lead into God's sovereign choice(s).

John 6:65 - "He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”"

 

deciding who is worthy and who isn't isn't very easy.

 

This is what I believe 100 percent. I believe that God gave us free will. This means that God will not intercede and interfere with the choices of humans. God loves humans, but will not force his love on us. God has to be both all-good and the source of goodness. There then, would be no good in the absence of God. One could then say the absence of good is evil and since God is the source of all good, the absence of God is evil. That evil would be hell. I believe that God is in everything, which would mean that god is in matter. I believe for us to have free will our soul then would have to be matter-less. Our body encompass the soul and since our body is matter the soul is embodied, it is in the presence of God and goodness. When our body dies the soul is released, and must then choice to remain in God's presence.

This remains that faith and love must be our virtues, and through sacrifice suggest to them the love and goodness of God, so as to ignite a desire within others to have a relationship with God

 

How did adam and Eve know to not disobey and eat the fruit? Why would an all knowing being leave such a devastating thing in reach of absolutely innocent people?

 

I believe man does have free will, but that it can be trumped God's will at any time.

Also believe left on their own, man will never choose God.

 

Very true.

 

I agree.

It seems impossible to put black and white human limitations on God. We can seek to understand God and his nature; but we can never fully comprehend in this life.

 

i do believe the Bible gives us a good idea about him, but agree that it is impossible for us to 100%, heck 75%, understand while here.

also believe there are reasons God has for doing this.