Bravo Mr. Trump

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by CardinalVol, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    We're in what I believe is a temporary phase where many have gone back to thinking many sick people are choosing to be sick. Obviously there is a lot of nuance to how or why people are sick, and I would be massively hypocritical to pretend like I've never said or thought similar to what Card was saying about various illnesses... but it just isn't so black and white.

    It is true that we have merged the concepts of health insurance and healthcare into one thing, but that is because we are living in a system where one's health care is dictated by their health insurance. And that isn't because of Obamacare, that has been the situation for a long while.
     
  2. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I was a frog's hair away from going all crazy about it, but then I've realized I have said or thought the same thing about folks with other things. I don't think there is anything conclusive to diet and MS, but the broader point of healthy living is something to consider and inconclusive doesn't necessarily mean false. But I doubt the cure for MS or other autoimmune disorders lies in a custom diet. I imagine that whether it is MS or anything else, or nothing and you're healthy, maximizing your health and diet will provide some benefits.

    That this has not been rigorously tested and experimented upon, given that the treatment is harmless and without risk, does speak volumes and suggests the claims are grossly exaggerated. But that's really speculation on my part.
     
  3. LawVol13

    LawVol13 Chieftain

    It's really easy to criticize someone with MS for their diet and lack of exercise when you don't have it. I don't even have to get to the merits of the insurance argument to know that that is being a complete ****ing [penis] to jay for no reason. I'd have told him to go **** himself.
     
  4. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

  5. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  6. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

    There are three pillars of health care. Availability, affordability and quality. You can really only have two of three. No way to please everyone. At the end of the day I'm going to favor a competitive market where citizens are given more freedom of choice over government mandates.
     
  7. IP

    IP Super Moderator

  8. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Weird how other places can have all 3. Not a lot of structures can stand with only two of three pillars. It'd have to be a lot lighter of a load than 300 million people.

    Stay healthy.
     
  9. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    He owns it now. Interested to see how the court battles turn out. Schneiderman has said all along that he'd file suit if he did this.
     
  10. A-Smith

    A-Smith Chieftain

    Yep.
     
  11. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    [​IMG]
     
  12. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    Sort of off topic, posting that quote reminded me of this:


    [​IMG]
     
  13. zehr27

    zehr27 8th's VIP

    What's the population in comparison to the US for the places that have all 3. Serious question as I am curious.
     
  14. A-Smith

    A-Smith Chieftain

    Well, we're the largest developed country so of course they're smaller. But sizable countries like Germany, Japan, Canada, the Netherlands and Australia all have good healthcare for a much lower cost than ours.
     
  15. A-Smith

    A-Smith Chieftain



    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP?year_high_desc=true

    Edit: link is not working for me. It is healthcare cost per capita from the World Bank if you want to google it. 2014 is the lastest data I think. You can sort the numbers highest to lowest to see what others are paying.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  16. A-Smith

    A-Smith Chieftain

    Abraham Lincoln didn't say everything.

    Neither did Calvin Coolidge for that matter.
     
  17. zehr27

    zehr27 8th's VIP

    Thanks. I'll take a look at it.
     
  18. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    I'm no authority, but wouldn't our GDP offset, or whatever you want to say, the larger population size?

    I think A-Smith's point about cost per person is spot-on.

    On another point, I don't understand the rabid opposition to universal care. Not saying that is wrong, but you want to talk about corporate tax reform & freedom? In my eyes, the patient would have immeasurably more freedom in their healthcare choices than under the current employer provided model. Think about it a second. You could see any doctor anywhere without your employer or insurance company telling you who you could see. I'm sure they'd have to pay taxes, as well as individuals, but think about the money companies would free up not providing health insurance. Figure in premiums/co-pays/deductibles/out of pocket responsibilities we already pay, and I can't imagine that our taxes to cover a huge pool of people, buying in bulk, would be higher than what individuals fork out now. And you don't have anyone telling you who you can & can't see.

    Maybe I'm way off base, but it seems like a no-brainer for patients and companies to me.
     
  19. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    You don't have anyone telling you now you can't see a provider, just that not all providers will receive equal or any reimbursement. Even if we went to a universal model there would still be providers that opted out, so this is somewhat misleading.
     
  20. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    And we are left holding the bag for the balance.

    I still feel it would be much better for consumers and companies in terms of cost.

    I understand and respect the fact you disagree. Not a shot at all, but I also understand that niether of us can say anything to change the other's mind.
     

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