Happy Birthday, America!

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by NorrisAlan, Jul 4, 2021.

  1. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    If they can't figure out the logistics, then they're effectively saying it isn't important. If it isn't important, it doesn't need to be a law.
     
  2. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I agree with your logic.
     
  3. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    You said: "Did I not make it clear in my previous post that law enforcement was absolutely out cracking down on that? They were literally requesting that people call in and report people setting off or storing fireworks within the city. "

    You used the word cracking down. You said the thing you just said you didn't say, like 4 posts above this one, man. You said that. Do I need to screenshot it for you? Jesus, man.

    [​IMG]

    The cost is not the same. The cost of an officer is the money you pay out - the money they bring in. The return for writing fines is higher, and thus the cost is lower. Minimal is still positive. If the cost is 200,000 with fireworks, and 190,000 with fireworks, the benefit is measurably better to not have fireworks.
     

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  4. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    You continue to use the word waste despite my constant objection to it. Even as a person who would be fine with all government funded fireworks shows being canceled for the rest of eternity, I can recognize the value associated with a fireworks show and conclude that it is not a waste.

    So if that $70k was not a waste, and it's now being repurposed for something that could be a waste, then I have a problem with it. And by your own preferred line of thinking, I should assume the government will waste it.
     
  5. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    A larger visible presence is a form of cracking down. Confiscating people's fireworks is a form of cracking down. Saying "Hey, stop doing that!" is a form of cracking down. You introduced writing fines, which is the key piece of the return discussion.

    So crowd control can't write fines? And again, your $10k applies no value to the fireworks themselves. There is 100% a value associated with the fireworks.
     
  6. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    If it is fineable, and law enforcement is not fining, then they have failed, the system has not. As written. They need to spend more time learning how to write fines.

    Where something is visibly and/or audibly illegal, in a crowd, yes, fines can be and should be written. Fireworks are easier to patrol than crowds.

    Ok, quantify the value of the fireworks. Using numbers. If you can't quantify it, then any value is just magic in your mind. Fines can be quantified. Overtime can be quantified. Cost savings by not having a fireworks show can be quantified. So quantify the value of the fireworks show.
     
  7. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    I use the word waste because you haven't quantified any value. You've qualified value, and that's waste. You aren't recognizing value, you are assuming value.

    You should assume the government will waste it, and demand that they do not. Starting with fireworks shows, and continuing on down the line. For any and all reasons.
     
  8. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    It's not about the fireworks. It's about the mayor exercising power that I don't believe he needs to or should be exercising.
     
  9. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    There's no point in me quantifying the value of the fireworks by myself because you won't agree with my valuation. We know that because I've disagreed with almost every number you've thrown out there up to this point.

    Norris suggested a long time ago that it probably costs about 10 cents per resident to fund the show. Would you argue that a 15-20 minute show itself does not provide more than 10 cents per resident in value? Hell, assume 50% of the city doesn't watch and make it 20 cents per resident.
     
  10. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    That's not value. That's ease of access, that's convenience. If the city was the ONLY show, then you'd have a value argument.

    But we know that they aren't, which means that the people can get their "value" from elsewhere.

    What is the value from this direct show that is irreplaceable? Because the costs can be quantified, from this exact show.
     
  11. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    This is why I said there's no point. What the [uck fay] are you even talking about?

    So if there are two concerts going on at the same time, neither provides value? 3 professional sporting events?
     
  12. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    I'm asking you to quantify the value of the event.

    Either provides value. Either. Not neither. Either. And since there are more than one fireworks display, and either provides value, remove the one that costs government.
     
  13. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    I'm done with this conversation.
     
  14. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Trust me, nobody is begging you to have it.
     
  15. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    A link to a little Shelby County flier stating that Shelby County has seen more than 20 million dollars in damage due to illegal fireworks. Seems worth it to make it a priority.

    Now, I'm not sure when the $20 million started, as in, the range of dates, or how they determined the dollar amount, but ... if Shelby County is anything like anywhere else, there is the argument to make it a priority.

    https://www.shelbycountytn.gov/DocumentCenter/View/30134/2017-Fireworks-Release?bidId=
     
  16. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    My earlier comment is one considering the perspective of a small LEO
    I imagine most suburban and urban counties could similarly rack up a large cumulative damage estimate. So what is an enforcement strategy?
     
  17. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Massive, in force, crack down. I think some places call this "blue crush" when they're targeting a certain area for a certain reason. Take blue crush to the suburbs, take it around the outskirts, take it wherever it needs to go, and ticket, ticket, ticket, court summons court summon court summons.

    It won't take many years, and fireworks will be done, and then it can be policed as needed.
     
  18. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Here is what is allowed where I am: "The fire code allows fireworks described as "any sparklers, fountains, Pharaoh's serpents, caps for pistols, or pinwheels commonly known as whirligigs or spinning jennies." Residents can use permissible fireworks on private property with the permission of the property owner. "

    Anything that shoots sparks/flames more than a few feet or is propelled in some way more than a few feet is definitely out... and that is the majority of what was being set off around here. There were many well-behaved households with sparklers too, but if one in every 4 houses is breaking the rule, it gets way, way out of hand in a neighborhood that is dense. So how does one enforce it? I am not criticizing, I am just thinking of how to bring things into alignment with the law. The local LE does their best, and there is very little violent crime/felonies going on around here but these kind of misdemeanor things are rampant.
     
  19. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    You enforce it, hard. That's how you counter it. You go street by street. You park a car at the top, right when everything is going, and walk down, and ticket everyone you can. You get in your car, and you go to the next street. You do this street by street, every year.
     
  20. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    Baltimore had a fireworks show this evening. I guess COVID is over? Although I think we still have an indoor mask mandate.

    lol
     

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