POLITICS John McCain, the Loss of an American Hero

I’m sorry that I’m now saying exactly what CNN said in 2008, and what I understand (and have provided appropriate sourcing to) to be entirely factual but unflattering things about a person whom you admire, and was recently lost.

I’m simply equally unwilling and incapable of seeing around those things, but have no expectations that anyone else share in my opinion.

I’ll happily agree with you in hoping that he now rests in peace, and is in a better place.

 

Most would sing like a bird.

But then, most don’t swear sacred oaths nowadays, either.

 

Remarking on McCain’s war service and (largely?) honorable time as a POW - and leaving his politics out of it - was my way of making a sizable concession, and playing it both respectful and nice.

The man was more Dem than GOP on many issues of significant importance (Obamacare, immigration reform, CIA Director, etc.) and who incredulously still won the GOP ticket, and essentially handed Obama - the most liberal POTUS ever - the keys to the White House.

He was one of the last times that the GOP fell for the Dems ol’ “you better pick a moderate, because only moderates are electable” - and which basically left America choosing between “Democrat / Liberal” and “Democrat / Liberal-Lite” in a Presidential election.

And he voted to stop the repealment of Obamacare.

I don’t blame any lib who has a soft spot for the old guy, one whit.

He was so incredibly useful to the Dems as to warrant a large statue in his honor.

 

Judge not, less you be judged

 

I think you perfectly represent the problem most of us have identified in the current political landscape and the reason why McCain is getting bipartisan plaudits here and elsewhere, this need to stay pure for the party (or leader) over country.

Otherwise, I think you are significantly off on his status as a Democratic enabler. McCain was a stalwart conservative on defense, aggressively promoting military action on numerous occasions ("Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran") and, generally, voted conservative on most other issues. His Obamacare vote was the result of his realization that the Republicans had no plan to replace Obamacare, which would have been a disaster, rather than his support of the health care system set up under Obama. He also thrust Sarah Palin upon the national scene, setting us up for the current Reign of Stupid with Twitter Don. So, there's plenty there for me not to like and I wouldn't call him "Liberal-lite" in any sort of reification of his political leanings and voting.

Plus, there was no way Obama was losing in 2008 to any Republican nominee (and would still be president if still allowed a third term). He wasn't needed to hand Obama anything in 2008.

So, no, I wouldn't say I would have a soft spot for him politically. He was pretty consistently on the opposite end of my political views.

 

Who is considered to be the Democrat version of McCain in the senate?

 

That was iReport on CNN, not CNN proper. It was basically early stage crowd-sourced news, or as someone said, a blog.

It was effectively an even more questionable HuffPo

 

In what sense?

 

McCain was beloved when he wasn't running for President because he would frequently cross the aisle to support Democrats on different pieces of legislation. Who's the Democrat version of that? I can't think of someone off the top of my head, but I don't watch it that close any more.

 

Manchin, except Republicans are all zealots and nothing but complete submission is enough these days.

 

Joe Donnelly is the highest ranking Dem on the Lugar Bi-partisan Index.

When it comes to taxes, bi-partisanship is nonexistent. Very little on healthcare too.

 

Fair.

 

I've yet to see Conservatives taking t0 the streets in violent protest with masked faces...much less dozens and dozens of instances of it.

 

How about last year in Charlottesville?

Or at every protest you think of as just being antifa and leftists? You think they're clashing with air?

 

I hate both parties, nearly equally. This is well and widely known.

I wish more elected officials would buck the system and vote their conscience.

But showing a modicum of courage as an elected official will never cover cowardice while in uniform.

Sorry.

 

1. I concede Charlottesville.
2. Are they clashing with other masked Conservatives, bent on mayhem, violence and lawlessness?

 

Yes, as much as their goals are those things. Don't you think each side thinks they are fighting for justice and for a better society? Of course they all think that.

 

Honestly, no, IP, I don’t recall frequently seeing a bunch of masked conservatives out tooling around, looking for a fight. I see the ANTIFA folks doing this almost every month.

I also don’t recall where the Dems are condemning this violence.

Maybe I’m not looking.
Maybe I don’t want to see it.
If you see it, or I’m wrong, point it out to me.

The more youthful / hell raising side of me wants to say that anyone who chooses to instigate mob violence deserves it in return.

But the (hopefully) better part of my nature says that it only makes things so much infinitely worse, ugly and difficult to overcome.

It’s a crazy world, of late.

 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/...defense-contractor-with-a-security-clearance/

Here is part of the frontline series I've been watching that details alt-right "protesters" who travel to rallies across the country with the specific intent to incite violence.

Some are active duty military. One had a job with a defense department contractor and a security clearance.

Do you really not know these people and groups exist, or is it selection bias?

 

No they are clashing with conservatives who want to hear a conservative speaker. Real thugs those listeners.