People who constantly quote bible verses

Most believe after the crucifixion, Jesus went to all the nations to preach his message

 

That your IP address was as clever.

Just FYI.

 

IP,
If the evidence is so convincingly overwhelming (and I am too ignorant on the subject to know if it is, or not) as to the non-existence of any G/god and insofar as a theistic belief has no merit - what causes you to cling to the last remnants of the agnostic banner?

Are there any evidence(s) / beliefs which you hold and which leave at least the possibility that some portion of theism may be true, and if so, what?

 

Jack Handy ain't got shit on what's going on up in here tonight.....

 

There is no evidence of a nonexistence of god. There never will be. There is no such thing as evidence of a null. Hence, the immutable space for the possibility of something without evidence. For the record, sasquatch falls in the same category for me.

 

I think he really wants to know why you are so against others believing. Atleast thats the way I read his questions.

 

I'm bothered because there is nothing special about Christianity vs other religions, and folks don't seem to consider that. It'd be no problem and a lot easier to shut up and mind my business if it weren't for the number of people who want have a government making decisions informed by their faith.

 

So many directions to go here. So having a moral standard to go by is a bad thing??? And just because its not your standard it should be banned?? Whats wrong with treat your neighbor as yourself?

 

Don't get it. Are you saying my post wasn't clever? Wasn't meant to be. It's an actual creation myth. Not sure if it was Sargon, but it was someone of similar time period and stature.

 

[uck fay]ing hell.

I'm not smart enough to catch half of what most of what is said here.

I believe that there is a God, although I'm sometimes uncertain as to why I or how I came to believe it. But I do.

I believe the Nicene Creed, literally, word for word. I wish I was more capable or willing to act like it.

I believe in heaven, and hell. I believe that we'll all be surprised at the roll call in each, when called.

Sometimes I seek his will. Most times I'm either terrified as to what it might be, or require of me, and I wouldn't pay attention to it even if he sat down and told me.

Sometimes I feel like I have a true relationship with him, other times I feel like I'm just convincing myself of his existence, or concern.

More times than I'd be comfortable in admitting, even to myself, his "will" is eerily familiar to my own desires, no matter how selfish or petty that they so obviously appear to be.

I dislike most Christians, and for many reasons. I detest their feigned piety and outrageous hypocrisies - but primarily, for the smug sense that they've got God / Jesus / the Bible / salvation all figured out. I'm not sure that I want to worship a God who lacks mystery. The world is replete with those.

I dislike the church's penchant in building million dollar cathedrals that hundreds of poor, ill and other "unseemly" others will drive or walk past on a daily basis, but who will never darken its door, and feel almost entirely forgotten by the those inside of it.

I don't know that it's possible to ever truly or fully know God. But I think he has left some definitive clues. I can't often piece them together, and on the rare moments an epiphany strikes and I do, I usually just smirk and resume surfing porn.

I don't think that Jesus and / or God give two shits if I curse, or not. I'm often perplexed that many Christians care so deeply about it as to condemn it.

The history of the Church is largely and tragically indefensible. We aren't exactly correcting that course nowadays.

I'm not sure that any church has it figured out. At all. Or even want to.

I could go on to a virtual infinity, but that's as true of an accounting of my own beliefs as I can possibly provide.

 

Red herring, IP. Introducing any manner of government into a religious discussion is akin to attempting to cure syphillis by injecting herpes.

And Christianity is no different or special to you, IP. You. Which is ok for you to believe that...but can't others believe differently?

Who wants to shut you up?! The largest problem in the entire debate is that everyone wants to shut everyone up. God will never meet a scientific standard, and you'll never disprove his existence to many, if any at all. All that we have left is discussion, and there's a great deal to be gleaned from all opinions, beliefs, faiths and non-beliefs.

 

Will you be my life coach? Seriously.

I find that I have as many if not more questions now than before, yet I truly believe. There's no way I can absolutely understand what some Christians claim to understand. I detest the politization of too many of today's churches. I hate that they are more concerned about a new parking lot instead of helping the destitute. I despise the condemnation of a woman who has an abortion, yet too many are unwilling to assist the mothers who feel they have no other choice but an abortion because of the lack of ability to provide care for their child. The church should be out in the world meeting physical as well as spiritual needs rather than smugly holed up in their cathedrals. They should be sharing the love that Jesus showed by going to the outcasts, the unworthy, the unwanted, and showing them that there are people that care for them. Modern churches have become social events rather than service organizations that are meant to spread what I feel is the greatest gift to man: love for one another.

 

This discussion is [uck fay]ing awesome. I have a few questions for the atheists / agnostics / whatever the hell you non believers consider yourselves.

There are a ton of canonized Saints in the Catholic Church. If I remember correctly, saints can only become saints if their are 2 miracles either performed by them or that take place in their name. These miracles are supposed to be scientifically unexplainable. I don't know how hard the church attempts to scientifically explain the miracles, but I have been told they bring in scientists with no connection or relation to Catholicism or the beliefs that come with it. Do you have an explanation for these miracles, other than stating that someday we may be able to scientifically understand them?

Also, one thing that has always interested me is the Stigmata. What is your explanation for the how people might go about receiving the wounds of Christ without actually doing anything to receive them? And how do the wounds not get infected? I ask just out of curiosity. I've always wondered.

 

Nothing good comes from that.

 

Just because the scientists can't explain it doesn't mean that the stigmata or miracles are an irrefutable act of a particular God; it's just inexplicable or there isn't enough evidence to come to some weighty conclusion. It's like me saying this: Each morning my daughter wants to wear her pajamas to school. I can't explain this. Child psychologists I know can't explain this. But just because we can't explain this doesn't mean she is necessarily possessed by the devil or expressing some will of God.

That being said, I am much closer to you on this issue than IP or Steve. When they present the sacrament of Communion in the Church it is called a "mystery" which I find an appropriate understanding of my faith. There is a mysterious quality to it, that, for believers, is not supposed to be totally rationalized. But there are also things that aren't mysteries and science explains to us how it happens -- the ocean tides, the changing of leaves, the creation of the butterfly -- but which possess a quality to it that is, I don't know, sort of spiritual. That's the best way I've tried to mend the fences of faith and science. It is haphazard and still flawed, but is somewhat tenable in my own mind.

 

Some of my thoughts. As best as I can explain em.

 

I'm sure your daughter could explain why she wants to wear pajamas every day. There are also a lot of very good reasons we could come up with that are most likely the causes for her wanting to wear pajamas. For example, pajamas are more comfortable than regular clothes, not having to change in the morning saves time and allows her to sleep longer, and maybe she thinks her pajamas are pretty and wants to show her friends. Regardless of what the reason may be, there are plenty of plausible possibilities for why she might want to wear pajamas. Can you give me any plausible reasons the stigmata might occur?

 

When did I say having a moral standard is a bad thing? Everyone should have one. Legislating one group's over everyone is wrong.

When have I ever-- EVER -- said Christian morality should be banned? I refute that notion whole-heartedly. It is quite the opposite. The morality of those who are not Christians is being banned. I think keeping two people from having all of the legal government stature enjoyed by a man and a woman simply because they are some other combination of gender is pretty clearly forcing one group's morality on another, when that moral question in no way interferes with anyone else's beliefs. Ditto for polygamy.

It is quite the opposite. Christians are very quick to pull the victim card out, when they are the ones waving around the big stick.

Treating your neighbor as yourself is great, until you are holding your neighbor to the belief system of yourself.


Acting like there was no morality before Christianity is asinine. The world has 6 billion people in it, over half of which are not Christian. They still have morality. Humans as we know them have existed for over 38,000 years at least before Christ. They still had morality.

 

It isn't a red herring. I am just saying why keeping the discussion going and at the forefront does, in fact, matter to me. It DOES affect me.

As for my beliefs being no different or special: no. In a word, no. I am not assuming anything supernatural. Every religion and faith is. That is a major fundamental difference. Sorry, that's just a fact. If you mean more in the sense that I don't "know" for sure, I already acknowledged that.

 

Stigmata has been researched and there are a number of scientific reasons for its prevalence. If your library has JSTOR, do a quick search for it an you'll see some results pretty quickly.I don't doubt that something called stigmata might exist, and God might be the cause of it let's say... But God isn't the cause of it just because science can't explain it satisfactorily.

And my daughter is two... I have no idea why she does half the things she does.