POLITICS President Trump: 100+ Mornings After (Term 1 Complete)

Ssmiff, you are missing the points from... everyone. You said abortion was murder, which is your opinion. You also said that it was different if the child was conceived through rape or incest... We are trying to understand why it would be different if abortion is murder. Is there some nuance to timing that you have in mind, where it would always be murder if you disapprove of the woman's decisions and not be murder if she didn't get to make the decisions you disapprove of (i.e., the pregnancy/child is a "punishment")

 

I can appreciate any argument that wants to save life as I also believe at some point there is life. But once there is life, its life regardless of the origin. My line of demarcation is probably different than others. But on the other side I also know that our society doesn't care what happens once children are born as evident by our writing off of a large portion of the population as hopeless, or at the very least, undeserving of our help. Those lives aren't saved by simply ensuring they pop out of the mother and immediately abandoning them.

 

no, i'm not missing the point.
I do not think like the idea of abortion due to accidental pregnancy, but in the end, its not my decision. I just disagree with the decision and would not want my gf, wife or daughter to have one. I would probably end the relationship. Can you say you'd fully support your wife if she had an abortion? I couldn't accept it and would have to move on. On the other hand, I fully understand a woman making the decision under other circumstances, such as rape, incest, etc, and don't disagree with it. And again, if my wife was a rape victim and impregnated, I would 100% want her to have an abortion. You believe one should be for or against and no in between. I don't tend to look at things so cut and dry and take into considerations circumstances to form an opinion. You are more hung up on the word "murder" and semantics than trying to understand how circumstances can be a part of forming an opinion, vs having to be yes or no on every topic.

 

And btw I believe it's about a 2 year wait to adopt. The system is flawed and many more kids could be adopted if the process was changed. It took my sister 3 years to adopt one child. If the numbers really aren't there why does it take 2-3 years? Multiple friends adopted from Africa and China, which for some reason took less time.

 

36 families waiting for every one child up for adoption. I dont want to look back, but whichever poster said the demand for adoption just wasn't there, is incorrect. The supply, so to speak, isn't there.

 

Because people want newborns and nobody wants to adopt kids after they are 2 or 3, they only want to adopt if they can essentially raise the child from birth. Once you hit 3 nobody wants to adopt you, they are left out to dry. The supply is there, but the demand isn't.

 

None of this has to do with the question of why it is not murder when the pregnancy is due to rape or incest, but is if it is due to choices made. Any "argument" made about there being demand for babies is not responsive to that issue since those would still end up as babies that could be adopted-- it actually doesn't address personhood or body autonomy either, or have any ethical/moral/religious bearing. By the same reasoning, people who already have a kid should give their new ones away?

 

None of this has to do with murder, because none of this has to do with murder. I've had that conversation already.

 

I'm just trying to understand his thinking.

 

I won't presume to speak for smiff, I think he's made it clears he's fine with his stance and doesn't feel the need to explain it. But I understand the base emotion from friends of mine who take the same stance as him so I'll explain their thoughts. They don't like the idea of abortion because at the end of the day it they see it as a lazy solution to an easily preventable situation (don't have sex, don't get pregnant). It doesn't matter that simply isn't reality no matter how much they wish it were so. I think at the end of the day they think its lazy more than anything. With rape, they have to confront the reality that the baby wasn't wanted in addition to the mother being an unwilling participant, so even though from the fetuses perspective nothing is different they tolerate the abortion because it wasn't due to a preventable act. I think deep down its more about lack of personal responsibility (which I will at least agree seems to be lacking more and more) than the life of the unborn. And I say that solely because the same people think the segment of the population having the most abortions are the dregs of society.

 

I can't think of a circumstance where I would be okay with murdering a child. So I have a hard time accepting that they really see abortion as murder if they think it is acceptable in some circumstances.

 

My parents are no abortions unless life of the mother is at risk, but a real mother would never kill her baby even if her life was in danger as it is all god's will. I disagree, but I can accept that is their position, its consistent, and not coping out from uncomfortable realities.

Having kids, its amazing what you see in early ultrasounds. There's so much detail you attach human behavior and purpose to every movement you see even though it's random (one time we saw our first born peeing in the ultrasound with his mouth open drinking all the fluids back in, it's wild man). But while we, two people who planned and want to have this baby, see things and attach strong emotions to the fetus, it's still not a person. Both our kids didn't start feeling "real" to me until around the 4 or 5 month mark, I'm sure my wife has a very different view as do other parents. But even when they became real, I can't say I thought of them as a person until we got to the 3rd trimester when I knew that even if they came out the next day they were going to live. I get why people define life way earlier than I do, but I try to separate seeing something through rose colored glasses. Just because its something I want doesn't automatically mean its unassailable fact, "I would never have an abortion, therefore no one has a good reason to have an abortion". My sister had a miscarriage really early in one of her pregnancies, she tells people she has 5 kids instead of the 4 she birthed. I can respect her emotional attachment and understand why she feels that way, but in my mind she's only ever had 4 kids. Basically what I'm getting at is, things we want seem more important and significant to us than other people, so we attach a lot of extra stuff. I forget that a lot.

 

The Freedom Phone…

lol

 

I've explained it several times. I domt think you are trying at all. My reasoning just doesn't fit with yours, whatever it is regarding abortion, so it's wrong of course.

 

What could possibly go wrong.

 

Do you consider a 1 month old fetus a child? Are you anti abortion or pro choice? I assume pro choice, so if a baby is aborted, what semantics are you throwing on the description of killing the fetus/baby? Just curious since you seem to be hung up on the word murder. Fetus is aborted, killed...what description are you using to describe the event?

 

Pick your timeline then. Surely you recognize that the 6 months part is irrelevant, right? You can pick literally any day of the pregnancy, and the comparison still works.

 

I dont agree that a 6 month old developed baby is the same as a fetus and am never in support of late term abortion

 

Dude, read what I am saying:

The day of the abortion is 100% irrelevant. Change the scenarios to 3 months, or 1 month, or 7 months, or 64 days, if you want to. The point is the same, which you would see if you weren’t getting bogged down in something completely irrelevant to the point.

 

They marked up a cheap smartphone like 400%.

And the best part is it’s a Chinese made smartphone that’s just loaded with free MAGA apps