Social Injustice

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by cotton, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    There is a strong correlation between poverty and crime. Lack of education yields continued poverty, which tends to result in increased crime rates.

    Increased crime rates tends to result in more interaction with police officers. More interactions with police officers tends to result in more violent interactions with police officers. More violent interactions with police officers tends to result in more shootings. More shootings tends to result in more killings.
     
  2. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Are there a larger (total) number of black people living below the poverty line, than whites? Are there a higher percentage of blacks living below the poverty line, than whites? I don't know, so I ask.

    And what if the groups are relatively equal, in total or percentage of group population - does attributing it to poverty still fit?
     
  3. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Well, is "poverty" the driver...or is it that the same people who usually make decisions that lead to poverty are also the same ones who make similarly poor decisions which more frequently lead to contact with law enforcement, and again, make additional and bad decisions which turn those encounters violent, at a higher percentage than others?

    It's the whole correlation vs causation thing.
     
  4. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Poverty and crime is strongly correlated across all ethnicities, across the entire country. So various differing genetic, environmental and communal differences.

    That's a pretty strong indicator.
     
  5. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck


    Yea. 2.6x more blacks in poverty than whites. Yes.
     
  6. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Since you are asking about total numbers, there are about 20 million whites in poverty, and about 11 million blacks in poverty. Of the total population of the US, the white percentage is about 6%, and the black percentage is about 3%. That's raw numbers. But you can't compare them that way because the white population is so much larger than the black population, that small changes can affect one population way more drastically than the other.

    An example of that is, suppose that poverty rate for whites and blacks is set at 10%. Meaning about 20 million whites in poverty, and about 4 million blacks in poverty. If we double the poverty rate, there are now 40 million whites in poverty and 8 million blacks. And the white people would say, "Whoa, this a big deal. We now have 20 million more people living in poverty than we did 10 minutes ago," and the black people would probably say "Anh, didn't really notice." To which the default reply would be, "Well there is more of us, so it hit us harder."

    It's still double. It's still just 20 % for everyone. But it hit white people harder because of the massive disparity in size.

    So there is a common sense reason to break populations out (which finds that of all black people, 26% are in poverty, and of all white people 10% are in poverty, thus the 2.6x), or normalize them. To get pure numbers equal, or normalize, we'd need a poverty rate for black people equal to nearly 47%, or a factor of about 4.7. Meaning we'd multiply everything on the white end by 4.7, in order to take differences in population out of the totals. And there is no way black crime rate is still higher than white crime rate when multiplied by 4.7. So what can be concluded is that there is no difference in crime rates for impoverished black people and impoverished white people.
     
  7. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Founder of the Mike Honcho Fan Club

    I don't know how anyone can argue that there are not more blacks in poverty than whites, by population percentage. It is obvious, imho.

    The worst off, by population, is the Native Americans, unless that has changed recently. It is staggering how much poverty there is among them.
     
  8. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Founder of the Mike Honcho Fan Club

    And this article is idiotic:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2663201-adam-jones-calls-baseball-a-white-mans-sport-when-discussing-colin-kaepernick?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

    Adam Jones of the Baltimore Orioles says you won't see anyone kneeling before an MLB game because it is "a white man's game."

    Huh?

    And the article "supports" this by saying that only 69 African-Americans were on opening day rosters or the DH. The author seems to forget that a full 1/3 of all players in MLB were born outside the USA, with a large portion coming from the Domincan Republic and Venezuela.

    Imagine if Dirk Nowitzki came out and sais "Well, basketball is a black man's sport."

    Adam Jones goes on to say Kaepernick can get away with it in the NFL because the NFL needs the black player, and he might get cut if he did something similar. Does he not realize the NFLPA is the weakest among all sports unions? That NFL players get cut ALL the time, no matter who they are? Hell, the 49ers could cut Kaepernick without even blinking, and I wouldn't be surprised if they do. And if they do, odds are it is because of on the field issues, not personal.

    While I applaud athletes using their bully pulpit for social commentary, they also need to keep their statements logical. For example, don't compare yourself to a slave because you have to do media work.

    Am I wrong in this view? I think so much more can be done if done the right way and not trying to make a bigger "us vs them" divide. It just makes it impossible to come together.
     
  9. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    If there are more white people in poverty than blacks, shouldn't there be a disproportionately higher total number of incarcerated whites than blacks, if poverty was the single biggest cause of crime?
     
  10. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    No. Because crime is not the same as policing, or prosecution, or conviction. Those aspects are predominately political.
     
  11. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    This could be explained better in person with skittles or m&m's. There's something being lost in translation regarding how statistics work.
     
  12. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    You can look at BOP, to kind of pull out a lot of the local variance in local law that can skew the numbers, so, for example, last month:

    Race # of Inmates % of Inmates
    Asian 2,901 1.5%
    Black 72,845 37.7%
    Native American 3,912 2.0%
    White 113,733 58.8%

    No skittles required. That's still a really high number of blacks incarcerated, compared to population, though.
     
  13. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Agreed.

    The red skittles commit more crime than the others.

    Eat the rest.
     
  14. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Blacks commit more crime.

    Didn't we all agree to this?
     
  15. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    No.
     
  16. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Out of curiosity, why is it that you feel blacks commit more crime because of proportions, but blacks are not poorer because there are less below the poverty line in total than whites?

    I don't really feel the need to get deep into this thread since we've done this exact thread before and folks are dug in deep. I'm just curious as to why proportional comparisons are only selectively used.
     
  17. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    You sure, Clark? Check the "Do Blacks Commit More Crime?" thread.
     
  18. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Is it possible that blacks simply commit more crime?

    Just, is that even a considered possibility?
     
  19. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I never claimed that, and don't see any duplicity.

    I'm merely asking whether blacks commit more crime than whites, in total, and irrespective of their percentage of the total population.

    For example, out of 100 crimes (convicted, found guilty and sentenced) - how many are committed by whites? How many by blacks? Asians? Alaskan-Eskimos?
     
  20. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    How will we know how many a group committed? By how many were convicted? Do you think that might seem like circular logic, given the nature of this controversy?
     

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