The Abortion Ministry of Dr. Willie Parker

I guess I really don't get the "it's just a fetus". That's been every single one of us at some point. That's pretty damn cold blooded to me.

 

Someone once told me that your child is the only person that you have instant unconditional Love for. This turned out to be true the moment I saw him. However I don't remember that emotional connection until then.

 

So lets change the wording; do you put your child(ren) before your wife?

 

I still don't see your OV scenario as comprable to abortion. But I'm not sure it is worth rehashing at this point. I won't be able to discuss for a couple days anyway.

 

Your question got me thinking.... for the fathers reading this thread; you saw the changes that your wife went through for 9 1/2 months. You saw the changes to her body, the changes to her personality brought on by the hormones, the challenges of getting out of bed, out of a chair, or even walking because of the added weight, the shortness of breath, the quick tiredness from little exertion, the nausea and vomiting from the morning sickness, the pain, suffering, ripping and tearing of the child birth itself.

If you could, would you put yourself through that?

 

Not a father, but I bet I know the answer for some of the guys in here.

It's easy to just say yes though. Would be interesting if it was actually possible.

 

Absolutely. I envied my wife, feeling our sons growing inside of her. The way you describe it, childbirth is some horror. I assure you, it was not for my wife. She enjoyed every moment of it, even the not so pleasant ones. And when it was over, it made her sad and she missed it. Did she have some rough times? Of course, but that is part of it. That is part of all of life.

Funny thing about evolution, it makes you enjoy the child birthing process as a woman so that you want to carry to term, so that the species will propagate itself. If you focus on what is bad and what bad things can happen, it sounds like a Clive Barker film. But you are ignoring (or not mentioning) all of the glorious things that come with it.

Of course, my wife and I wanted a baby. We had been trying for two years with no success to get pregnant and were about to start the road to adoption when she finally became pregnant with our first son. If you don't want a baby, I imagine all of the pain and sickness overwhelms the good aspects of pregnancy. Which is what this whole debate is about, not wanting the pregnancy.

 

If that were the case then we would not be having this discussion.

 

Sorry, in the context of wanting the child. Obviously, if you didn't want to have the child, odds are pretty good the euphoria that the female body generates will not overcome the emotional angst. Now, you might then say and why should she have to go through this if she doesn't want to have it?

Again, for me, pre-14 weeks you have time to make a choice if you want to have a baby or not. If you cannot make up your mind before that period, then you have made up your mind as to having the child.

As far as later in pregnancy, you find out the fetus has a problem, sorry to hear that. If my son were to fall and hit his head and become mentally damaged, I would not be able to kill him simply because that is not what I signed up for. Those are the ups, downs and risks of this thing called life.

 

[video=youtube;SFHWl-ZyRAg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFHWl-ZyRAg[/video]

 

It isn't about the situations, it is about the bottom line.

1. Life isn't the most important thing.
2. Another can end the life of another, and it be morally acceptable.

That's it.

Because these two things are important.

It means the debate about abortion shouldn't contain 1 or 2 as reasons why not to allow abortion. But inevitably they always do.

 

Not to go off on a tangent, but I am interested in what is the most important thing if not life?

 

I want you to read about trisomy 13 and trisomy 18. Pay close attention to screening for 13.

Then read about the mean age of survival, and then I want you to answer a simple question.

How many would you bury before you changed your mind?

 

Choice.

 

Can you make a choice without life?

 

You tell me. I thought we made it clear we weren't debating religion.

 

If you want a serious answer, though.

The most important thing in life is not life, it is choice. Life is merely a requirement.

 

I will grant you that. In fact, I asked my question in haste without thinking about it and while preparing my kids for their swim lessons I had time to think and realized that, yes, choice in life is paramount. I might have a right to life, but by default that also means I have the right to forgo that right and choose death.

And I don't know why you mentioned religion, this is purely a philosophical debate, unless you were just poking me with the sarcastic stick

 

Tongue in cheek response, nothing more.

But if we were having this discussion, and there was a serious religious undertone... but since there isn't, tongue in cheek.

 

I think life isn't the most important thing, because as you say, if it were, we would force people to live.

The Right to Life [is paramount], however, might be seen as the twin sister of Right to Choice. And that is a different thing than life being the most important thing. By definition, if I have the right to do something, I also have the right to not do that thing, as in the example of voting.

Number two is also not debatable, and I don't think anyone here has debated it. We can kill someone if we are in immanent danger from said person, as we have the Right to life. The person endangering my life has willfully forfeited his right at that moment because he is made the decision to willfully terminate someone's life without their permission.

So the real debate is whether or not abortion, at various times in the pregnancy, is moral. I have given my stipulations as to when it is and is not moral. I am not saying they are the end-all-be-all of the discussion, I do not have that right or wisdom. However, as thinking, moral beings, we must, imho, hedge on the safe side of the discussion as far as we can. Anything less would be gross negligence of the worst kind.

EDIT: "The Right to Life, however, is paramount." this contradicts my choice is paramount above. Wanted to clarify.