The Indy Talks To Himself (NBA) Thread.

Describe the avenue that would change your mind.

 

He would have an argument with two more titles and dominating the league in the manner Jordan did at the same age. That would put him, in my estimation, under consideration for as good as Jordan, but Jordan still had a better career up until age 35, clearly. Jordan also averaged 20 ppg at age 40, so there's some late age substance, too, with him.

This isn't a slight on LeBron. Jordan is the best athlete in any sport I've seen, ever. That's an extraordinarily high bar. James not being better than him isn't some campaign or absurd "hypocrisy". He's still the #2 basketball player of all time and one of the best athletes.

 

The hypocrisy is talking about rings when it suits your argument for Jordan over LeBron, but then forgetting about it with Russell. It’s all that matters until it doesn’t prove your stance.

The underlying problem is that it’s a moving goal post. Why does he have to “dominate the league” in the manner Jordan did at the same age? Is the “league” the same now as it was then? Bron is looking at his toughest start-to-finish road to the championship, maybe in his entire career, and that’s with Kevin Durant and Kyrie both out injured, as well as Steph and Klay at Golden State.

Also, that you point to Jordan’s time with the Wizards as a positive in his career continues to amaze me. Why on earth would averaging 20 PPG on a garbage team at age 40 matter in the Goat debate? LeBron has already played 17 seasons, compared to MJ’s 15, and that’s even including the year MJ broke his ankle AND the often forgotten year he came back from retirement and only played 17 games. By the time LeBron is 40, he will be in his 22nd season. And that doesn’t even mention the additional playoff games. Their situations are completely different. Talking about what the two of them did/do at age 40 is just another in a long list of meaningless things the Jordan supporters try to use in their favor.

 

Who was talking about Russell? When did I discuss him. You get too damn worked up about this as if LeBron is your cousin or something and then throw around silly hyperbole like "hypocrisy". I don't include Russell because he may have been the best player on those Celtic teams, but he wasn't the dominant force James or Jordan were/are for their teams. Those Celtic teams had Cousy, Havlichek and a host of other great players, plus Russell was decent, but not great on the offensive end. The Celtics still win without him, though not as much. No James and Jordan, those teams do not do well. If I had to choose and all-time NBA team, I'm not sure I pick Russell at center. If he's the best, I have no hesitation. James and Jordan, I have no hesitation.

Does that satisfy you or are you still on your period, which means we should discuss this at another time?

 

There’s no need to get personal, man. I’m not worked up at all, and no, I’m not on my period. I’m typing messages to a random person on a message board.

I brought up Russell because the ring part of this debate is a ridiculous, ever shifting criterion that’s only mentioned as much as it is because it can be easily positioned to hurt LeBron. There is no doubt in my mind that if LeBron wins 3 titles in the next 5 years, and then retires, the argument will shift to say “it took LeBron 20+ seasons to get 6 but only took MJ 15 seasons.” My view on rings is that once a top tier player has multiple, he enters into a camp of players where you really have to start looking at other factors to distinguish between them.

Actually, the Bulls played just fine without Jordan the year he retired. They weren’t the best team in the league and didn’t win a title, but they were far from “not doing well.”

 

I’ll go ahead and go on record as stating I’m not super confident in the Lakers this year. I think the loss of Avery Bradley, and his defense, is huge, especially with a first round match up against Lillard and a second round match up against either James Harden and Westbrook, or against CP3. I also don’t love the match up against the Clippers. Anthony Davis should be able to dominate that series, but he hasn’t shown anything since coming into the league that has me confident he will. I also don’t have much confidence in anyone else truly stepping up for the Lakers. Danny Green has been spotty from 3, and Kuzma is inconsistent. Even if they get Rondo back, he’s a defensive liability.

LeBron may be able to carry them, but I’m just not super confident it will happen.

 

The Bulls were ok the year after he left, but the year he came back, they were clearly on the downslide. We'll cross the LeBron bridge when we come to it. But, rings matter. Not only, but they matter.

 

You try too hard

 

Porzingis ejected on two weak technical fouls. Clippers got bailed out.

Also, did I mention Luka is special?

 

The Bucks are done. They haven't given a shit since the bubble started and can't match the execution of the sub .500 Magic. They might get this series in 6 or 7, maybe. But, they have 0% chance of getting past the second round.

 

The thing I've missed most about the lack of sports is histrionic Uni.

 

I came into this thread right now specifically to see irrational Uni.

 

He has ingame and in season composure of a crackhead in every sport.

 

They’ll win this series. That might not be what you mean though. Certainly don’t look like a champion right now

 

You I will take it from, the two knuckleheads below you, no way.

This isn't happening in a vacuum, losing for the first time today. They are 4-11 in their last 15 games (Granted a few were before the break, but still suggesting they've hit a wall.) and lost, decisively, in their first playoff game to a sub .500 team. More than their record, the way they have lost is the kicker. Low intensity, poor defensive rotations, inability to make necessary changes and on and on.

Look, I suppose they can suddenly flip the switch, but that usually doesn't just happen magically as you get into the playoffs if you have the sort of problems the Bucks are having. Something is amiss.

 

You just took it. Because its true. In game spazz. Literally top 3 ive ever seen

 

The Bucks will be fine. They’ll take care of the Magic, struggle a bit with the Heat but advance, and then they’ll go to 7 in a toss up series with Toronto. If they win that, they lose in the Finals. That’s been their most likely outcome all along.

 

Have you been watching them? I bought this narrative they were coasting until the playoffs, then I saw them play the same exact way today as they have been during this downturn. It was the same sort of play which cost them four straight against Toronto last playoffs. This on top of the fact Miami swept thenthis year and is a bad matchup for the Bucks. Budenholzer has also had his playoff issues. When I see something different, I'll back off my statement. But, again, this didn't come from nowhere, it's been brewing.

 

They’re essentially the exact same team they were last year, and their problems are the same as they were last year.

Miami could take them down, but I don’t think they will. Toronto will be a tougher challenge, but not a guaranteed loss either. The Bucks were still by far the best team in the East. I don’t think they stand a chance against either LA team.

 

They aren't the same. I'm still pissed they kept Bledsoe and not Brogdon.