The Indy Talks To Himself (NBA) Thread.

Wilt played against 6'4" white guys.

 

No, his legend stands taller than he ever did. It's incredible. You'd think the guy didn't miss a shot. No star is winning a title with that roster.

 

This subjective stuff is mostly fluff. Put Jordan on the 2007 Cavs instead of LeBron and they're still very likely down 3-0 to the Spurs. That gives Jordan four games in a row that he "absolutely has to win," and there's zero chance in hell that he's winning that series, no matter how confident you personally are. So there goes that example.

LeBron is also the best per-game performer in elimination games, ever, which is the definition of must-win games.

 

You're confident Jordan wins because he's a great player with a great team. You can't just put him in any random situation and say, "Boom, Jordan wins because he's Jordan. 2016 Sixers? World champs. 2007 Cavs? 2011 Charlotte Bobcats? World champs."

Calm down, people. He's still human. And he lost plenty of times

 

[youtube]4r06rvgRLSw&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

 

haha

 

Why does my example go away because of your determination of a hypothetical? Jordan never had an elimination game in the NBA Finals. Wasn't necessary for him. Jordan took a team that was below .500 at the All-Star break to the best record in history, to that point, the next year. I'm sorry, he's just better and that's no slight on LeBron. If I had a starting five from anyone in NBA history, I probably would take LeBron. Just not with the first pick.

 

How is what you just said not negated by the Bulls going from winning the championship to finishing 2nd in the East and third overall without Jordan?

 

They still had some good parts in Pippen and Grant, plus added Kukoc, an underrated player, and Steve Kerr. So, they had a nice season with a decent team, but still lost early in the playoffs. Then, the same team, minus Grant, pretty much stinks the following year. It was falling apart. Keep in mind, with Jordan not retiring, we're talking a probable eight in a row titles.

 

Lebron left the Cavs, and they became the worst team in the league for what, 4 straight years?

And everyone wants to talk about Lebron not being clutch or lacking a "killer instinct." Look at his stats in NBA finals games when facing elimination. They're otherworldly. Why is the final shot the only one that matters?

 

He's 6 for 6

 

With plenty of help.

 

LeBron had a lot of help in Miami

 

It's not the only factor or people would be talking about Robert Horry, but players like Jordan and James are the main reason why their teams win championships. And, by factors like this do most people judge players objectively while using their own perspective, sense, etc. subjectively as to their greatness.

So, yes, there are definitely many factors, but, to me, one of the qualifications for greatest player ever is, if there is a possession to win a championship, that ball is, unquestionably, in your hands. That didn't happen for James the other night, but I [dadgum] guarantee you who the Bulls (Who have been argued to have better players than the Cavs teams) were relying upon.

 

Yeah that wasn't exactly the 76ers when he got there.

 

LeBron's also had the benefit of a pretty crappy Eastern Conference to roll through year after year. No way he does this in the Western Conference.

 

Warriors hadn't lost 3 in a row since 2013. Didn't lose back to back games once all season. How do these accomplishments by LeBron get so undervalued? He led all players in every single stat category.

 

There's a non-terrible argument that his legacy would be much better right now if he'd played on on all the same teams just in the western conference.

 

Officiating change was the whole difference.

 

I don't think they are undervalued. We are just arguing whether or not he is the greatest player ever. That, in itself, should indicate that his value is extremely high.