Trayvon Martin Shooting

Absolutely. I don't know enough about the scenario to legitimately comment about the case, but I do know that it's absolutely ridiculous to advocate charging people with murder regardless of the facts just to "send a message."

 

Alan Dershowitz has written an enlightening article in the NY Daily, calling for Zimmerman's charges to be dropped...and beats the hell out of State Attorney and Special Prosecutor Angela Corey along the way.

Dershowitz, while unabashedly uber-liberal on a vast many things, is perhaps one of the best legal minds in this country today. You might not agree with where his conclusions land, but you'll usually play hell finding fault with how he gets there. This is no exception.

Link: Drop George Zimmerman

Note: I provided neither quotes nor any material from the article, as it deserves an unabridged reading.

 

Can't wait to go down to Florida with my .357 and play Batman.

 

IP, God/Buddha/Allah/Gould/Dawkins love you, man.

Please point out the flaw in his logic, or simply admit that while you don't like his conclusion, it is an entirely reasonable and valid one.

 

I didn't like the charging of second degree murder when it first happened because I didn't think they could prove it. Do not mix legality and morality. We all know that the two are vastly different and especially in Florida. The fact remains Zimmerman created a situation and then shot his way out of it, leaving an otherwise innocent teenager dead for the crime of walking home with a bag of skittles. Too bad Trayvon Martin didn't just curl up in a fetal position when some fat bald guy approached him from the darkness and demanded him to stop and tell him what he's doing. I hope we all learned from this and will comply with all mysterious figures that stalk us while walking home.

 

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seems pretty obvious martin is the one who turned the situation physical. i agree zimmerman should be blamed for playing amatuer cop. but if martin had simply told the guy to go screw himself and continued on his way i very much doubt he'd be dead right now.

 

We don't know what exactly was said, though. When getting confronted at night in an aggressive manner, I can't fault Martin for taking a physical stance if he did. All we know is the situation was created by Zimmerman, and when he started getting his ass beat he shot the kid. How do you know Zimmerman didn't grab him? You don't and you can't. We will never hear the other side of the story because the other side got shot through the chest.

 

oh i agree with you. at martin's age i certainly would not have backed down and zimmerman created the situation by his stupidity/racism/whatever. and you are correct that we don't know what happened. we do know that zimmerman called teh police what 100 other times? and as far as been reported this was the only one that turned physical. so obviously something was different this time and zimmerman doesn't generally get into it with the people he's following.

 

You don't "make a point" by charging innocent people. That's totally and completely ridiculous and is unethical and should get someone disbarred if they know he's innocent.

 

And here i thought everyone was innocent until proven guilty...

 

That doesn't change the fact that you can't accuse someone without a reasonable amount of evidence. The accusation does plenty of harm by itself.

 

Well said.

 

Remind me where I confused morality with legality, again?

Did Al Gore tell you that any confusion between the two was particularly pervasive in Florida, and if not, how else can you support such a statement? In which states are they most clearly delineated?

Zimmerman claims to have exited his vehicle in order to find a house number to better identify his location to law enforcement - which at least sounds plausible. Do you know this to be false? If so, how? If true, was this, "inciting a confrontation"?

I'm not certain how you've misconstrued the term "innocent" - but I don't consider anyone who is sitting atop another person while beating them, as one eye-witness described, "MMA style" to be "innocent".

As Dershowitz explains, even if Zimmerman incited a confrontation (and that's at least debatable), it only disallows a defense on the basis of "stand your ground" - but it didn't suspend or limit his general rights of self-defense, nor does it make Martin's attack any less criminal - even if provoked. Just because I goad you into fight doesn't mean that upon knocking me to the ground you can then sodomize and rob me with impugnity.

Zimmerman is being pummeled "MMA style" and is heard - on a 911 recording, no less, and which has been corraborated by eye witness accounts, including that of the lead investigator as he approached the scene - screaming for help. Not once. Not twice. But fourteen times. 14. What's the number of screams that must be heard before its safe to assume that someone may be in reasonable fear of their life?

Had Zimmerman not shot Martin, might he have been killed, instead? Does that matter?

If Martin didn't deserve to die for doing little more than carrying skittles, should Zimmerman's life have been similarly placed in imminent danger for, at worst, following a person after he was told not to do so?

Look - I thought that the guy just provoked some shit with the wrong dude and was getting his ass whipped, panicked and killed an unarmed teenage boy. I thought he should go to jail for that (like you, I didn't think it was murder 2), if nothing else, and he may still deserve to. But I was wrong to think that it was so cut and dry, as these new facts certainly shed a different light on it, altogether.

Perhaps you did, too.

 

I have to agree. Zimmerman may well have killed Martin in self defense, but I'd have to assume that Martin was terrified. Regardless of the legality of anything that happened, Martin probably viewed Zimmerman as a lunatic with a gun and acted out of fear.

 

Agree completely.

 

Not to make the same mistake of assuming anything again here, but if what witnesses say about the MMA style position he had him in and was "pummeling" him....he might not have known their was a gun before he felt the shot.

And of the two, it's seems just as likely that Zimmerman was equally afraid, too.

 

Maybe, but I can still see the kid freaking out if someone is following him for no reason.

I'm sure he was. However, Martin probably had no idea what was going on.

 

What a horseshit post. What exactly are you even responding to, here? Did anyone ever say we should charge innocent people? Or did I miss the conclusive evidence and proof of Zimmerman's innocence? I've got my hip-waders on, pile up your usual shit. Let's go.

 

Conclusive proof and evidence of his innocence....

I thought that his innocence was presumed, until proven guilty?

Seriously, IP?