why you're wrong about communism...

i'm glad i wasn't drinking anything when i read that. hahaha

 

Reminds me of the "Utopian communities" that used to come in and out of existence throughout the nineteenth century in America. The only one that I know of that survived for more than 30 or so years is the currently active "technicolor Amish" group in Lewis County, TN. But Tennessee used to be dotted with such utopian projects in the 1800's.

I think capitalism is easier for people to understand because it relies on our natural inclinations towards gaining wealth and our equally natural self-centeredness that somehow most of us will "get ahead" some day-- which by definition isn't true (50/50). Communism in a pure or altruistic sense has never been attempted on a large scale, and maybe it can't work on a large scale. What folks call "communism" thinking of China and the USSR isn't really communism. Communism has a lot more in common with Jesus feeding the 5,000 than with Stalin killing millions of undesirables.

 

People are way too greedy and self centered to make a true communism work. It's just not going to happen on a large scale.

 

I agree, but the goals and philosophy of true communism could come about in any society made up of individuals who desire prosperity for all who work. Sadly, that doesn't seem likely any time soon.

 

The only way communism would work is to make money worthless, i.e. Star Trek. Imagine every house with a fusion generator and a 3-D printer that can make anything you want at any time. That has its own dangers, however, and might be worth another thread.

 

I think the biggest key to a Roddenberry culture is not money being worthless, but rather wealth/luxury not being the goal. Which eliminates some of the problems with having access to whatever you want. If everyone is focused on self-improvement and contributing to society (art, technology, exploration, etc), all the problems of society fade away.

 

I wonder, is that even possible to achieve without the pre-condition of fulfilling everyone's wishes? I try my best everyday to meditate on what I have and not to be too attached to any desire and knowing that the next thing will make me happy, but only for 10 minutes and then I will need/want the next thing.

But I am not sure that everyone is capable of doing that. In fact, I would argue few are. I know I struggle with it daily. It is an interesting thought exercise.

 

I've never encountered that term when referring to people from the farm. We just called the place the hippie farm back in the day. I understand it, and I still think it's interesting how two groups such as those came to reside so close to each other.

 

Love me some Roddenberry

 

Is that any relation to the "hippie farm" near Summertown in Lawrence County?

 

The same

 

I think we underestimate how powerful cultural momentum is. It may be possible, but is practically unimaginable to our present culture. I could go on a lecture concerning the way certain primitive cultures lived until very recently (once they encounter global society, they become part of it) as an example of what is possible. Particularly island cultures where resources were understood to be finite by everyone. Resources are definitely finite on Earth, but we still don't think of them that way.

 

Ya, same place. Believe it or not, it is part of a larger American tradition of creating societal experiments. Several of them were in Tennessee.

 

*emphasis mine*

Interesting thought. I guess it never occurred to me to compare the two situations. Obviously, until 100 years ago, if you wanted more resources, you just went over the next mountain. But there are no more mountains, per se (though new techniques can arise, like fracking, right or wrong). How would one go about turning the inertia, convincing everyone that we live on the Island Earth, and we need to come to grips with this? I know many have tried, but, particularly here in the USA, the whole big wide open spaces mindset is still fresh and is pervasive.

 

the vast majority of people today, especially in our country, have a selfcentered mindset based on instant gratification and the goal is to get them to think long term and selflessly? talk about an up hill climb.

in roughly 2 generations we went from the "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" mindset, to "whats in for me?" how do you convince the populace to think of others when they have learned only to care for themselves. hell, near half of them only care for themselves, while fully expecting others to take care of them.

 

Or, is it intrinsic in human nature to be self deluded into thinking more will make me happy, and JFK knew this and was imploring people to not "ask what my country can do for me?" I argue it has always been this way, but we now live in a disposable society. Furniture at one point was a luxury, not something you replaced every few years or just tossed if it tore. You would fix it, patch it, pass it on to someone else.

Now, your TV breaks and you buy a new one. Or you want that new TV and you toss your old one. We haven't changed, our ability to just get new things has changed. And it doesn't make you any happier, in fact it more likely makes you more miserable.

 

The issue with communism is that everyone has to think and act the same. Basically you have to have a population of robots that can't think differently without a leader.

That's about as far away from our nature as you can get.

 

It's a neat place. I grew up fairly close, and have met some people from there. My only trip out there was for a concert. To grow up in such a backwater place filled with backwoods people, I've never heard any real ill words spoken about the place. That is besides my father telling me that he was going to take me there and leave me if I didn't get a haircut or stop listening to that hippie music.

 

We're a country with an extreme amount of wealth that has lost the value of sacrifice and hard work.

 

yup