POLITICS Democrats on Illegals / Children

The media tells people what to care about and be emotional over. People fall for it.

 

Sure, there is a portion of the population that fall for it, because they are incapable of doing otherwise. Some are just ignorant and fall for the anger du jour.

I would like to think that no one on this board is like that.

 

NA - His mandate and duty is to enforce the law. There should be no personal preference or unilateral action to it - whether that’s in failing to meet it’s lawful mandate, or in exceeding it.

If you would (rightfully) criticize him for overreaching his powers - and you both would and should - how can you then advocate that he should somehow fail to fully do so?

Because he simply decides when, where and how to do so?

It challenges the very outer limits of my comprehension how anyone can advocate that any POTUS should just be handed such dangerous, immense and unilateral power - and particularly THIS ONE - whom so many have raised so many honest and valid concerns about, for the last few years.

I don’t like kids being separated from parents any more than anyone else with a mind, heart and soul would prefer - but this is happening because people continue to attempt to enter this country illegally, with children in tow, and because the United States Congress - BOTH PARTIES IN BOTH CHAMBERS AND FOR NEARLY HALF A CENTURY - have lacked the political courage and will to address and remedy it by the mere exercising of their authority and protections under the Constitution, and which our system of government necessarily requires.

This convenient shifting of blame to anyone but themselves is EXACTLY how this long and largely reviled group of absolute and ever-bumbling incompetents and special interest puppets continues to get elected.

And it is their utter and long-standing lack of any semblance of morality, genuine concern or courage which has not only failed the American People, but the very same illegal immigrants whom they now falsely proclaim to be so [uck fay]ing concerned with, and which is not only so inarguably untrue, but chicken-shit, as to be self-evident.

Blame Trump, if it makes you feel better, such is your right, and I do respect that.

But he is no more to blame for allowing this issue to continue for so long as to now become a crisis, than he is the best or right means to address and remedy it.

In fact, if our current immigration system is now utterly broken - and it is - then further allowing its direction to be unilaterally determined by the POTUS (be it Trump or anyone else), based on the shifting winds of a 4-year election cycle, and in the voided vacuum created by Congressional cowardice, the situation is only going to get infinitely worse.

 

And again, what law is there that demands Trump separate families upon detainment? Or is it a DoJ policy, whom Trump has power over, and not Congress?

Do you equate law and policy, they are separate things. And until this is agreed upon, neither of us can continue this debate.

I can only speak for myself, but I am not against Trump detaining people that enter the country. It is the law and should be done. It is the policy (NOT THE LAW) that is being argued here.

 

I will also speak about this "enforce the law, all of it, no matter what" ideology and say that this is dangerous, as well. The police and judges must have wiggle room for extenuating circumstances or the system will quickly break down and we will live in a police state.

Should a man seen jaywalking across the street to keep a kid from being hit by a car be given a citation?

I will say this, though, my wife has NEVER gotten a ticket, even though she has been pulled over several times. I have never, ever gotten out of getting a ticket. Ever. Wish I had boobs sometimes.

 

There are definitely folks who are riled up over this or actively deflecting/defending it based on their preferred media outlets. Here? I don't think so.

With regard to this specific issue one does not need any help in understanding forcibly separating children and using them as political pawns is wrong and wholly indefensible. It's wrong whether orchestrated by Obama, Bush or Trump. If you need assistance with determining how to feel about this then you probably have bigger challenges to address.

 

Fake News from June 24, 2014.

52k unaccompanied minors at the US border.

Clearly, this is Trump’s doing.

*What’s that last bit about the cartels using kids to smuggle drugs while crossing the border?

 

Even my own and often slavish arguments for the strict adherence to the rule of law can admit and agree that some discretion is necessary - so long as it occurs under extraordinarily and extenuating circumstance, and is limited, well-defined, required to prevent a greater harm, where lesser means have failed or could not be reasonably employed, and appropriate, formal and legal solutions could not have been reasonably achieved in sufficient time to have prevented and remedied it.

This current crisis largely fails to meet most, if not nearly all, of that criteria, and has long deserved a final, formal and legal solution.

 

From an earlier post:

Fine. Then what do they do? Here are the options available to the State, now compelled to act (feel free to add any I’ve overlooked):

1. Simply release the offending parent - the same who is alleged to have committed the same illegal act with a child under their care - so as to allow them to continue “caring” for their child, and in complete disregard of the rule of law.

2. Place a parent alleged to have committed a crime in a jail while awaiting the judicial process, but also jail their minor child with them. (Sidenote: If someone objects to the temporary use of chain linked fencing and tents, wait’ll you get a load of kids in the cell block, and out in the yard.)

3. Detain the parent for their alleged criminal act in a jail, and while awaiting the adjudication of their case. Place their children into State’s custody, and not in jail with their parent, where they can be cared for until:

a) They can be reunited with their biologicalparents upon the conclusion of their case, whenever that is, or

b) A relative or foster parent can be given temporary custody, so as to care for the childwhile awaiting the conclusion of the biological parent’s case.

While none of the three (3) options are ideal (the parent who willingly committed an illegal act and with their child in tow is singularly responsible for removing any hope of an “ideal situation” from this conversation), which do you prefer and think best, particularly for the child?

Or, again, suggest any that I’ve missed, if you believe they exist.

 

From yesterday, but I’m not sure why this isn’t more widely reported / known.

10,000 of the 12,000 - 8 our of 10 - children currently in the care of the HHS at the US Border were unaccompanied when they arrived.

My goodness. Skip to 14:00 mark.

 

Are these the cages that Trump is using?

 

This is why you fact check shit. Anyone willfully and wantonly trying to show that as reality are contemptible.

But, was this actually being passed off as fact or was it a protest that someone on the other side of the argument made out to be something it wasn't?

 

Like i mentioned, congress is riding the wave when they could have changed yesterday.
So much bad info out there its unreal.

 

No, it’s precisely the actual law that he’s following.

There are laws that are intended to prevent and punish those who illegally enter our country.

These are our not mere policies, or helpful suggestions, as you stupidly and conveniently suggest - but laws.

So, yes, let’s do make sure to clear that silliness up.

The only “policy” at play here is the “policy” of previous Administrations to simply allow those who illegally entered our country with children to remain, and which the law makes absolutely no provision to allow - nor certainly as the singular discretion of the POTUS - and hence, was in fact, and by definition, illegal.

Please, I’m beggjng you - go to Mother Jones, Buzzfeed, or wherever else liberals lurk - and convince them to band together and challenge Trump’s zero tolerance for the enforcement of a law....in a court of law....any court you’d like...and run back here and let me know how the fastest and most spectacularly failing case in the history of the US went, for the 6.2 seconds it was being heard by a judge before being laughably thrown out.

Better - go to RGB, Sotomeyor or Kegan and seek their signature on an emergency injunction! Please!

Like the rest of these wayward vote-buying libs and cheap-labor loving GOPe apologists, you clearly don’t care any more about the rule of law than you do those kids at the border - or this would have been remedied by legislation (you know, laws), long ago.

You simply want a borderless world of free-flowing and unchecked immigration, and you not only don’t care if it requires the shredding of the Constitution and the termination of our system of democratic government to get it - I honestly think you actually hope for it, and see them as an obstacle to your objectives.

Good. Luck.

So long as everyone stays asleep, the issues remains largely obfuscated and widely ignored, and it remains a bunch of silly talk on the interwebz - your position and aim will be both safe and fine.

 

Seriously, Tenny. Are you willfully ignoring the policy of separating parents from children vs the law that says they are to be detained?

Law: Anyone entering the country illegally is committing a misdemeanor on first offense.

Policy: While the alleged misdemeanor is being run through the system, the kids are separated from the parents for long periods of time instead of putting them as family units in the detention areas.

One is law, the second is the policy that is being used to enforce that law.

I may be in the wrong here, but you are arguing something that no one here is arguing against.

 

Let me be fair to IP’s earlier point / post in saying that this is but one picture, and doesn’t necessarily mean that there aren’t cages being used as he alleged, or perhaps something even worse.

I haven’t personally seen it, and do not know.

This single picture neither necessarily invalidates his point, nor was it posted with that singular intent.

I did think it was worthy of consideration, and still do, as we all assume what that situation entails.

 

I’ve now twice posted the only three (3) viable options available to Homeland Security when arresting a person who attempts to illegally enter this country, and is accompanied by a minor child.

Again, either tell me of another option available to them, or choose from those I listed.

 

You use the word "jail" as if the detention centers where the children are being kept cannot also be the "jail". I have no problems with the families being kept in a holding area. But keep the families together.

 

Inconvenient Reality:

Why don’t we live in a borderless society of free-flowing immigration?

Why hasn’t Congress acted to address and remedy the issues surrounding illegal immigration, and to provide amnesty, instead?

1. Because the overwhelming majority of Americans neither want open borders nor blanket amnesty for all immigrants, and politicians rightfully fear that The People will run their asses out of power, and on a rail, for obviously doing - or working toward - either. That’s why.

2. Because Big Biz wants a constant flow of cheap labor to continuously drive down the wages of the American worker - and to further increase their own personal and corporate wealth. The Dems, vote-buying and victimization-peddling of every conceivable demographic known to man (save White, heterosexual and Christian males) extraordinaries - make their hay and move their socialistic agenda most quickly along by getting more and more people hooked on the government teet...and absolutely nothing does that better than the shared misery of generational poverty, and which is exactly what unchecked immigartion and blanket amnesty would produce.

This is why it hasn’t been fixed, and likely still won’t be, even if Trump (or anyone else) put these kids in a catapault and shot them back across the border.