Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by CardinalVol, Jun 14, 2017.
That is true, we are deliberately polarized in many ways.
This change must occur amongst the citizenry, itself, to have any hope of successfully producing any truly transformative or lasting effect. But this process of reconciliation must be an intentionally sustainable one, and would be best lead by the President of the United States, having both the sacred duty and singularly ultimate responsibility to demand, strive toward and ensure for it, as best as he can, and it can possibly be achieved.
Trump has the power to do this, as does Bernie, Rand, Warren, Ryan, McConnell, etc. - but none seem willing to do the necessary work to bring it about, or appear to be even mildly or beyond temporarily concerned by it, at least thus far. I'd like to see them step up and do so, but am no longer willing to hold my breath while waiting.
But the the hard work of change must occur with We, and not them. We're doing this to ourselves, or are allowing small groups of extremist others to do it against us, and at our detriment.
I don't know what the answer is. But more of the current climate doesn't seem to be working, at all, absent the media and extremists.
Seems to me its becoming irreconcilable. Half the country feel they have a right to force others to work for them or to engage in economic activity one does not wish to pursue in the name of their nebulous greater good, radical egalitarianism or Utopian schemes. I for one will not put up with it for any longer than I have to.
Milton Friedman was right when he said: “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
Alan Keyes expressed it well and I voted for the man in 1996 and the 2000 primaries over Bob Dull and W so I voted for a black man for president long before Obama showed up. I also supported Herman Cain before he dropped out. But I didnt do it because they were black. I did it because they were right.
"Tyrannical taxation, and excessive government spending and borrowing, are not only threats to our economy--they erode the resource base of our freedom and our moral responsibility.
The income tax is a 20th-century socialist experiment that has failed. Before the income tax was imposed on us just 85 years ago, government had no claim to our income. Only sales, excise, and tariff taxes were allowed. We need to return to the Constitution of economic liberty that our Founders intended to be a permanent bulwark of our political liberty.
The income tax in effect makes us vassals of the government--the politicians decide how much income we can keep. No mere “reform” of this slave tax, such as flattening the rate, can correct its fundamental denial of control over our own money.
Only the abolition of the income tax will restore the basic American principle that our income is both our own money and our own private business--not the government’s."
Nimrod and his sign show the mentality of the other side. Tax the rich? Who is th erich and why does he think he has more right to their property than they do? He wants to redistribute the wealth not fund the enumerated functions of government. Their problem with Trump isn't some belief that he is racist or some other nonsense argument. The real problem the left has is with the notion of private property and freedom of the individual. They are collectivists. They dont care two cents about muslims. Its a wedge. They dont care about illegal immigrant they are seen as voters and a means to power. Trump threatens to take away part of their power and money.
I consider my self a patriot in the sense that I support the ideas of the founders. I can do that wherever I am. I can do that on a homestead in the deep woods or in some central American country were I would be exempt from property and income taxes.
Liberals before they became radical leftist and radical egalitarians used to believe the following:
“The makers of the Constitution conferred the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by all civilized men—the right to be let alone.”-Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Vitriol and division are too powerful of political weapons and too many view politics as end all be all.
One leg of this is a return moral principles. Its called traditional family values by us Reaganites.
The political leg is called the Convention of the States where we put Pandora back in her box - a very small box. I talked to Bill Ketron about this one day years ago when I ran into him in the Boro. Good man and he was informed and already on board. TN passed the resolution to join.
I dont agree with members of congress saying that this is only a mental health issue. Clearly the tenor of political discourse and the lack of compromise creates a flashpoint for mentally unstable people to gravitate towards. I'm not even pointing to any specific politicians, bur more of the special interest messaging. We just had a primary in Virginia and the ads made the other parties sound like invading armies.
The second you conceive of abandoning the United States, you completely invalidate and absolutely refute the veracity of any previous or future claims that you are either a patriot or love this county.
It makes you a treasonous and traitorous piece of shit, instead, and we'd be better off in your actualizing - and expediting - that plan.
You undoubtedly have some valid points, but mostly, you're the living embodiment of exactly what's wrong.
I don't think I have agreed with a word you have said politically in the better part of the last year, but this is dead on. Well said.
This is a much nicer version of what I was going to say.
And we've seen it around here. This site, for the most part, has some of the most intelligent cats I've ever been around. No one is taking up arms, but we've damn sure let each other know how they're pure evil. And as usual, it's not just one side.
Same could have been said of these traitors to their country when they said:
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
No I am the patriot because my loyalty is not to some piece of dirt or a people. Its to the ideas that this country was founded upon. Did you take an oath to the dirt under your feet or some corrupt government that violates the ultimate law of the land? Or did you take an oath to defend the constitution. A piece of paper in the minds of the leftists if you will? I bet it was the latter.
So when you gonna man up and take on that domestic enemy? Oh and it aint me. I am non-violent and do my fighting at the ballot box.
I think Van Buren county is nice and land is cheap. But how much can I be left alone out there when the thieves and violators of the constitution have us 20T in debt and with unfunded liabilities of 200T? You see its when they start to compel people to work for them that I am done. See Obamacare as a template. You engage in their prescribed activity or you are fined. That is un-American not my belief that liberty is more important that the dirt under my feet or that I owe fealty to a people of which half have abandoned the principles of the founding and feel they can compel me to participate in their Utopian schemes. So save the hectoring lecture for someone who cares or get you head out of your arse and understand that the left is the enemy of the republic and not this Eagle Scout.
I think the shooter today also thought he was defending against domestic enemies to the constitution. Wrapping one's self in the flag isn't a cloak protecting you from moral obligations or civility. Civil disobedience is one thing, civil violence is another.
And nowhere have I advocated violence. In fact becoming a martyr for a cause like this true believer leftist is not in my mindset. I support the convention of the states but its a long shot. This republic may have already succumbed to the disease. Do you guys think I really want to live in some backwater? Not hardly. I like it here for the most part but I see the direction we are headed and with choices being living under tyranny, martyrdom or leaving. The latter is a no brainer.
I do have a plan to move to Van Buren if things work out. I envision a 10 acre plot with a creek for a boundary. I can see retirement where I relive my youth and spend part of my time enjoying nature.
I am a man of simple pleasures. I like good food, drink and quiet. Back when I lived in Crab Orchard I would go deep into the woods with my dogs and scale a cliff that overlooked the creek. I would sit upon the cliff for hours enjoying nature. I am a hillbilly by nature. I used to run around barefoot, shirtless and carried a billy club not that I needed it.
A man has a finite amount of time in this life. Taxes take of that mans labor and hence a part of his life. Parts that can not be regained. Time is not money. Time is more valuable than money or gold. I had a large government account ( HUD- yes I was conflicted working for a department I dont think should exist) but the work load combined with my other accounts saw me working 6 days a week.
After 6 years of this I decided to walk away from that account and it was financially damaging. But I got to see my family including my mom who was dying, help my kids with homework and take them to their functions like sports, mixed martial arts and scouts.
I will be damned if I will pay European style taxes now or in the future and put in the hard work needed to pay those taxes and maintain my lifestyle so leftist can have socialized medicine and support their welfare state. Nor am I going to sit by silent as society via government fiat pushes all manner of indecency upon us.
Here is my hope via the convention of the states:
Establish twelve-year term limits for members of Congress and the Supreme Court;
Repeal the 17th Amendment;
Allow either Congress or the states to overturn a Supreme Court decision within 24 months with a three fifths vote of the members of both houses or the states;
Require a federal budget to be enacted by May or impose an automatic across-the-board 5 percent cut, and the budget may not exceed total tax receipts or 17.5 percent of GDP; (this precludes socialized medicine as HC alone is 16% of GDP!)
Place a 15 percent limit on the amount of income taxes collected from natural and legal persons, change the tax-return filing date to the day before federal elections, and ban federal estate, value-added, or sales taxes;
Require every federal agency to be reauthorized every three years in a stand-alone bill or else expire, and require a seven-member House committee to approve all regulations with an economic burden greater than $100 million within six months or cancel implementation of the regulation;
Limit the Commerce Clause to preventing states from impeding commerce and trade between the states, and specify that it does not extend to activity within states (whether or not it affects interstate commerce) or to compelling an individual to participate in commerce; Bye bye mandate
Extend the protection against seizure of private property to require compensation for regulations that reduce market value or interfere with the use of property in an amount exceeding $10,000; Hello EPA
Change Article V so that any constitutional amendment, proposed by anyone, will be adopted if it is ratified by two thirds of the states;
Require a 30-day waiting period between agreement upon the final version of any congressional bill (engrossment) and the final vote to approve it, and allow three fifths of the states to override any federal statute or any federal regulation with a cost exceeding $100 million within 24 months of passage or approval; No more gotta vote on it to see whats in it BS
and Require valid photo ID and proof of citizenship to register and vote in all federal elections, in person or by mail, and limit early voting to 30 days before the election (except for active-duty military personnel). Lo siento, pero no voto ilegal para usted
But if "this war is lost", to paraphrase, Dingy Harry then to also paraphrase Davy Crockett “You may all go to hell and I will go to somewhere else ”
Perhaps you shouldn't ignorantly bloviate about the intents or limits of any sacred oath which I have taken to serve, protect and defend this country, or question my eager willingness to engage its enemies.
Perhaps you shouldn't be so flippant as to accuse someone of treason when I have neither given aid nor comfort to an enemy during a time of war.
The founders warned against democracy and the evils of majortarianism. Just because 50%+1 people vote for something that violates the constitution doesn't mean I have to sit around and take it or I am somehow a traitor for not embracing serfdom. In the modern era people can pretty much live where they choose.
If I can create an online business and live overseas where I have no income tax or property tax, become exempt from HC mandates and live as I choose that does not make me a traitor. I am under no obligation to pay off the debt of the USoA or pay confiscatory taxes if there are legal mechanisms of escape.
Same if I move to the woods in a low property tax county with very little codes or regulations on how I use my property.
Who is John Galt?
I'm embarrassed about the period of my life where I actually adopted some of her views as my anthem.
As I have gotten older, I have gotten more liberal and progressive.
The way the FBI is acting, I wonder if they suspect that this guy was part of something larger, or if he had co-conspirators of sorts. They're asking anyone who has ever had any interaction with him to come forward. And apparently a lot of people in Alexandria have. He would hang around the YMCA.
Someone with severe myopia.
Separate names with a comma.