obama basically saying the rich got that way through luck or handouts

bingo. most of the audience already thinks the rich don't deserve to be rich. all this does is reinforce their existing bias. if this was obama's first comment of this nature you could assume that maybe he mispoke. but there is a pattern here of obama arguing the rich "owe" the rest of the country something.

 

I'm just saying the underlying concept is a fair position, imo. Obviously, like everything in life, it is more nuanced than politicians make it out to be when pandering to a certain demographic. It certainly was not delivered well. It was certainly approached in a ridiculously divisive way. For being such an awesome public speaker, he sure does butcher his supporting arguments.

 

By paying for the contract that made those workers and private equipment be there? If it isn't a private toll road, it was built by government funds.

Explain to me how the private entity employing those workers and supplying that equipment makes any money off of building a public road, if it isn't being paid for by public funds? C'mon, that was weak. The Henley Street Bridge isn't going to be a toll bridge, as far as I know. I don't think they are hoping for donations either. They certainly aren't building it for free. So where did that money come from?

Now, how many businesses are going to benefit from that bridge being rebuilt? And so they (and others) collectively pay for it. Christ, since when did anarchy gain a foothold in conservative ideology?

 

The money came from you and me. Once again we go to the 2 premises:

1) Money belongs to the Gov't.

or

2) Money belongs to us.

I believe 2

 

if he was just arguing that people benefit from govt it would be a pretty pointless speach. arguing that there are plenty of poor people with the same qualities of the rich and following it up saying the govt made them rich makes it pretty obvious he's not just arguing govt is important.

 

IP you should know that the eye of the needle, is a small door fixed in a gate and opened after dark, as a door interring the Temple Mount. To pass through, the camel must be unloaded. Hence the difficulty of the rich man. He must be unloaded, and hence the proverb, common in the East and the people of the day understood this.

 

So who exactly is "the government" in this framework of yours?

 

I actually am aware of that. I think it fits with what I was saying.

They still use the phrase in muslim Turkey.

 

Representatives elected by us.

 

So you pay for the representatives and you pay for the road. What's the problem again? Oh, right. The representatives you pay for don't do things the way you want, and the representatives you pay for make you pay more to do things you don't want. It sounds like your beef is more with your fellow voters than with the system itself.

 

the biggest problem is voters are dumb. no question. the unoins and others can throw money at the problem and it works.

 

No; my beef is with a President who believes - "If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that".

 

He should of added, "in a vacuum." Yes, he butchered a salient point to pander to his base. But some are taking the opposite extreme

 

I am not so sure that he butchered the point. I believe it is how he truly feels given the views of those who influenced him (i.e., his father, his friends, etc.)

 

If so, he is a very sad man. Didn't think he was close to his father

 

I agree with this. This is the reasonable view of his comments.

 

i go from thinking he really believes all this garbage to thinking he's a pure political animal. i'm not sure which is worse. one means he literally has zero economic knowledge and the other means he's lying to the american people every single day.

 

I side with it being pure politics.

 

The politics of it is taking what he said there, which is actually a valid point if not taken to extremes, and knowingly stretching into something he did not say or mean. This is obviously done by both sides and is just part of the game.

 

i'd be all for saying he didn't really mean it the way it came out if he didn't go into how hard working and brilliant all the non rich people are.