obama basically saying the rich got that way through luck or handouts

I thought this was fitting

 

The total ironic part of this is that the Wright brothers were not the only people attempting to fly at this time, they weren't the favorites to fly first, and IIRC the person who was favored to achieve success was being funded somehow by some type of government. 75% sure it was federal, but I am not positive.

Edit - Samuel Pierpont Langley, and he was funded by the Smithsonian.

 

Does seem unfair that one guy is paying 1,000x more than the other no? Everyone's standard of living would be better if we didn't pay taxes. I can't justify that one person paying 1,000x more than another isn't paying their fair share. Where does it end? What is a fair share?

 

The guy makes 1000 times the other guy's salary...

 

Where did they receive their education? Public school

What inspired their engine flight craft? (hint: the pioneer who "ironically" got federal funding.)

What data did they examine to determine the best location for their experiment? US Weather Service data

Who were providing safety and rescue personnel at the site? US coast guard, other federal entities

How did they protect their idea from being stolen by others with no compensation? What entities were involved?
US Patent office, and eventually the US courts upheld challenges and IP thefts.

Who was their first major profitable contract with?
US Army

Also, Orville Wright received Smithsonian funding early on as well. You've actually just picked an excellent example of my (and I believe Unimane's) point. America is the hotbed of innovation partly because of the environment our government helps create.

 

mental note - next time research more or knock a few more cobwebs off the the brain cells storing that info.

 

The major reason why the Wright bros. were not favored and not well thought of in their field at the time is because they kept their work mostly proprietary, while most French, American, and Brazilian aviation pioneers shared everything in the hopes of advancing the field more quickly. The French media particularly resented this.

 

So it would be unfair for him to pay 1500 or 2000 times more in taxes right?

 

I think Obama most likely has a point with that comment. The mistake is even making a comment like that that can be spun in a way that makes it look like he might have been saying something he wasn't. It's fair game what people are doing to it. Obama would do the same if Romney made a similar comment.

 

All paid for by their taxes.

 

That may be so, but I think IP's pretty effectively obliterated the use of the Wright Brothers as an example of someone who accomplished everything with no governmental help. In fact, the use of the Wright brothers pretty much makes Obama's point for him.

 

The ratio between tax and salary between the two in the example is identical...

 

Exactly.

 

If only Obama were as eloquent and effective as IP in defending the position, though.

 

I still don't think this was the crux of Obama's point, even as I was humiliated last night.

I've never met an uber-rich person in any other means to say hello, but through my career I've encountered several that fall into the 200K-1M income range. I've met very, very few who think they have done it totally on their own as he suggested the rich do in his speech. The vast, vast majority would agree with the statements on teachers, infrastructure, etc. However, at the end of the day, the statements come across as that the individual themselves had little to do with their success and that it is because of the government's role. And because of that, they "owe" more in taxes.

I'm sorry, on every conceivable level the way he applies this fact is wrong.

 

We agree here, if that is what Obama meant. Individual responsibility and work is much more than half the battle.

 

No matter how IP paints it, Obama still royally screwed up with the statements. I know far too many instances where the Best Buy worker making $8 bucks/hr as a 30 year old had the exact same infrastructure as the Apple employee working on the next generation iPad that the Best Buy worker is about to start selling. In several instances, the Best Buy worker has the same smarts, he's just too lazy to apply himself to get to the level of the Apple employee. According to Obama's speeches recently, that is the Apple employee's fault, and for that he must pay for it. I don't buy it.

 

Given his recent rhetoric and his attempt to make this election about tax "fairness", and given he was speaking to a group of Democrat supporters, I don't see any other way in which this comment can be painted.

 

When was the last time you rode by a road project and saw gov't equipment and workers. I have never seen it. The name on the equipment and workers are from the private sector.

Tell me again how the gov't builds the infrastructure?

 

yes if you are making aircraft you probably got a lot of govt help,. the average guy setting up a drywall installation company not so much. the point lost here is that those things listed by obama are available to all americans. so obviously the govt isn't the primary reason this happened otherwise everyone would be doing it.