The Abortion Ministry of Dr. Willie Parker

As you recall, I specifically used EEG's as a metric to be on the safe side (though even that is debatable as to whether that makes a person). Please don't take this into a weird "gotcha" direction. Not having limbs does not affect EEG's. Before you go there, being brain damaged doesn't affect the presence of EEGs.

 

Can you be a full person without them?

 

I am not. I always took VolDad to be fairly Libertarian in his ideology. You can correct me if I am wrong, VD.

 

He and droski can surprise us sometimes. They aren't cookie cutter people.

 

What if someone creates a mechanical lung?

 

Fiscal conservative; social liberal.

 

Rule of parsimony.

You didn't answer my scenario.

But I'll give you your answer, as unlikely as my scenario is, you cannot give an equally as unlikely scenario that ever allows the male to trump the the wishes of the female concerning her own health.

She is both patient and next of kin. The female can likewise never force any physical contact upon the male. But that is precisely what you are suggesting for the female.

It is illogical, irrational and above all, emotional. Nothing more.

 

You mention exactly what I think, though. Everything is debatable. There's no clear cut way to measure what is an actual person.

 

I, probably like most, would prefer there be no abortions. I think the debate is over who should be allowed to make the decision.

 

I thought I had answered your scenario in the second paragraph, but I will restate (and more clearly, as rereading, it might have been vague): the mother could choose to take the medicine without the father's "consent". It is a tragic scenario, as I said, and would be a hard one to live through.

Given the biology of the situation, I would like to think my stance is impractical (and impossible) given that only the female can carry a baby. There is no way to take a fetus and implant it in the father (sorry Arnold Schwarzenegger). I will admit, it is very emotional. I still have bitter feelings about how the hospital admission papers and procedures often made me feel like a merely tolerated observer in the whole birthing process.

Not true, of course. But how I felt.

I find abortion to be a very hard subject to deal with. And there are no easy answers. I have a tendency to lean more on the side of the fetus than the mother.

 

Yes. But then you put forth a "what if" that has no bearing on my criteria. Which is reasoned one and a quantifiable one.

 

I put forth a what if just now?

And just because it is reasoned and quantifiable, does that make it right?

 

When you said "so amputees aren't a full person?" you were putting up a preposterous and obviously stupid idea that you surely knew was stupid. Do you think I'm stupid?

A reasoned answer is superior to an unreasoned one, yes? A quantifiable one evades any kind of preposterous "so what if he is an amputee?" dumbshit remarks that are beneath both of us. Because I already covered that: EEG or GTFO.

And I asked before, but: what is the position you are coming from? I am coming from the position of what we consider a living person versus a dead person at the end of life, and applying it to the beginning. I am also drawing from the historical (and prehistorical) widely held belief that "birthdates/days" are more important than "conception dates, breathing is a meaningful milestone to a new life, etc. That "unborn" refers to someone "not yet alive." So what are you basing your concept on?

And note, I am not even having to discuss the idea of a woman's right, which is a whole other easy avenue for me to argue as to why the vilification of abortion and choice is immoral and unethical.

 

I only have words. I haven't read everything in this thread, because honestly some of it isn't worth it. I just read "full person".

How exactly does unborn mean not alive? They have heartbeats and can feel in the womb.

And let's talk about women's rights, along with the rights of those growing humans inside that should also have rights. That's easy to vilify when you are ok with ending those lives without a second thought.

 

And I can tell we are about to come back full circle and begin debating things we talked about yesterday. So, I'm out. It's been real.

 

Not entering the debate, but as possibly the only female on this site who has borne children, 1 without the baby daddy, and one with an active and present father and also within the confines of marriage, there was never any doubt from the day I found out I was pregnant on, that these were human beings and afforded every chance at life, from the womb on, I could give them

 

How can a society that says the murder of unborn babies is right turn around and say anything else is wrong?

 

Wow ... that's a pretty powerful statement. I make it a point to stay out of shit like this but I had to give you props. Word.

 

Smoke, I'm probably too simple-minded to join this debate so I won't.

 

How can a person tell another person - I should be allowed to force you to give up over 9 months of your life that will change your body forever and possibly kill you; because you have a parasitic cluster of cells in you body now.