The NBA Thread.

Again, it depends what kind of list we are talking about. Is it a "this season" list, or is it a general list (taking into account this season as well as previous seasons). I've got no qualms if it's just a this season list. Okay, I shouldn't say no qualms. Steph is too high, as is Booker. Kawhi probably as well, and I don't really get the case for putting Shai above Embiid but below Luka.

But I also don't really care about lists that are just about this season.

 

Again, are we talking about a ranking for just this season, or a broader ranking? My list was a broader ranking, taking into account this season but others as well.

Shai hasn't played in the playoffs since 2020. His career playoff averages are 15-4-4. I couldn't give less of a [uck fay] about what he's doing in the regular season until he shows something in the playoffs.

AD was the defensive anchor (and arguably best player) on a Conference Finals team just last year. He won the damn title the last time Shai made the playoffs, and he has an argument for being the best defender in the entire league this season.

If we are taking context outside of just this season into account (which I was when I listed my ranking), Shai does not belong above AD.

Ask yourself the question - "If I can only pick 2 out of 3 players from LeBron, AD, and Shai to win me a playoff series tomorrow, who am I choosing?" Anyone who chooses Shai over the other two is either lying to themselves or basing their decision on hope rather than facts/actual results.

 

Choosing AD to win a playoff series over Shai when nearly every team he’s on without LeBron is thoroughly mediocre is comedy. You’re welcome to wait for every good player to make the Finals or whatever before they’re in your top 10, but it’s why you were behind on Jokic, behind on Tatum and now behind on Shai.

(Meanwhile, Embiid is “top 3 minimum” never getting past the second round and Luka was widely considered top 5 before he got out of the first, but Shai is different)

 

AD is 26-11-3 in 55 playoff games with a Title, a 2 conference finals, and a 31-24 record.

Shai is 15-4-4 in 13 playoff games with a 5-8 record and zero games outside of the first round.

AD is a far superior defender (not saying Shai's a bad defender), scores at a similar rate, and has shown he can be a 1a/1b on a title team and conference finalist. Shai hasn't even shown he can get out of the first round yet.

What you call "late," I call "make them earn it." And you're mischaracterizing the argument for Jokic. My qualm was Jokic's MVPs, not whether he was in the Top 10.

And just because Tatum now fits nicely into the Top 10 discussion doesn't mean I was wrong to keep him out of it then. If I remember correctly, the guy we were arguing about being more deserving than Tatum was Jimmy Butler, who, if I'm not mistaken, is 2-1 against Tatum in the playoffs and has more Finals appearances despite Tatum always having a stronger supporting cast.

Embiid was a buzzer beater (from an all-time great) away from a conference finals appearance, and dropped 41 in that game 7. Averaged 35 and 10 in that series. He's dealt with injuries, Ben Simmons nonsense, James Harden nonsense, etc. And despite all that, he has an MVP and was having one of the literal best seasons of all time this year before going down with an injury. Dude has earned where I put him.

LOL on the Luka piece. Is this a serious thing we are going to talk about? Surely you're joking. Hell, this probably deserves its own post.

 

@NashVol11

I wouldn't say Luka was "widely considered Top 5 before he got out of the first," but certainly top 10. And he absolutely earned it for any number of reasons (pick whichever one(s) you want):

• He set the record for the most points (42) in an NBA playoff debut (against 2 guys widely considered the best perimeter defenders in the league)
• In his first playoff series, he pushed the 2 seed Clippers to 6 games, essentially by himself, averaging 31-10-9, and looking like the best player in the series by a mile. And again, that's against 2 guys who were widely considered the best perimeter defenders in the league, and against a team that, if I'm not mistaken, was favored to win the title
• He also had an epic buzzer beater in OT to tie that series at 2-2
• He then pushed that Clippers squad to 7 games in his 3rd season in the league, averaging 36-8-10
• Through 11 playoff games, Luka had more 40 point playoff games than Giannis, Kyrie, AD, Chris Paul, and Klay Thompson, and as many 40 point playoff games as Tim Duncan, Magic, Kawhi, Dame, and Karl Malone. That's before his 2nd career playoff series had even ended, for [uck fay] sake.
• And that doesn't even cover all his "Youngest guy to..." records. Youngest to hit a playoff buzzer beater. Youngest to score 40+ in a game 7 (formerly held by LeBron). Etc.

[uck fay] outta here acting like Luka didn't earn that shit or like Shai deserves similar treatment. Luka also followed up those first 2 playoffs and being widely named Top 10 by carrying his team to the conference finals in his 3rd playoff appearance. Dude has as many 40-point playoff games as Giannis, Jimmy, and Steph, and more than DWade, Dirk, Kawhi, and a ton of other all-time greats. He's an all-time playoff performer if he retires tomorrow.

 

Shai has yet to reach his prime and is playing at a higher level than AD has reached at any point in his life, lol. I have a few Laker fan friends who are homers and not one of them would take AD over Shai. I don't care what AD won as a #2, that's a "Kobe > LeBron because rings" argument.

Yes, Nick Wright's qualm was him winning a 2nd MVP because he was the "most disappointing one ever" or whatever and a 3rd MVP because that's only for historically special players. Then he won a ring and many of those same people started saying he should have won it over Embiid (I was fine with Embiid) because he's the best player and a historically special one.

Nope, Butler was in my top 10. You were saying James Harden was better in a season where Tatum took his team to the Finals. We were talking about people like Dame and Donovan Mitchell.

 

I’ll respond to this later ^^

Bron’s got 18-2-8 on 70% from the field and 75% from 3 at halftime, and the Lakers are losing to the 10 seed Warriors.

Rob Pelinka and Darvin Ham are terrorists.

 

They can take points off the board multiple possessions later based on a guy’s foot being on the line? Seriously?

Where was that rule in our game against Kentucky?

 

And then they miss the travel AND he might have been on the line.

[uck fay] this nonsense.

 

Would be great if refs could just do their damn job in real time.

 

Lakers have inbounded the ball 3 times and stopped for clock issues.

15-20 minutes of real time passed for less than 15 seconds of in game time. They've ruined this game. Jesus.

 

Shot clock still [uck fay]ed.

20 minutes have passed since we hit the 1:40 mark left. Why are we even bothering at this point? The game has been irreparably altered.

 

https://x.com/worldwidewob/status/1769199659275497554?s=46&t=-g4-4SHxx6dZ80rS7hnjTA

 

https://x.com/worldwidewob/status/1769484454387667068?s=46&t=-g4-4SHxx6dZ80rS7hnjTA

Lakers didn’t want to give up 2 firsts for him lmao.

 

https://x.com/statmamba/status/1769554590247080250?s=46&t=-g4-4SHxx6dZ80rS7hnjTA

Crazy if true.

 

https://x.com/sixthmanjake/status/1769537279893139503?s=46&t=-g4-4SHxx6dZ80rS7hnjTA

I wonder how frequently guys step on the line and it goes uncalled?

 

But how about the WNBA? Does he have more than any WNBA player?

 

I'm not sure. Give me a moment to check the ESPN top headlines.

 

John Collins needs to just retire. He ain't coming back from that.