An explanation for religion

I'm not typically a wiki guy but thought this was interesting:

In any case, continue on with subscribing to "enough time/chance" and we'll do the same with God. At the end of the day we're working with the same evidence.

 

It goes back to an earlier post someone made in this thread. Roll a dice 10 times. Then calculate the odds of that happening. The universe isn't Hamlet. It is the universe. We only know the way things worked out. Calculating odds doesn't change the inevitability of SOMETHING working out. It isn't divine that I hit all green lights on the way to work, whether I can replicate it or not ever again.

Infinite means infinite. Read that entire wiki article, you seem to be getting the wrong impression. 1 in a trillion chance over infinite tries is a mathematical certainty.

 

And we aren't working with the same evidence. A creationist belief has never made a prediction that has been proven correct. Physics and cosmology has many, many times.

 

I don't have the wrong impression, I simply found the probability interesting. You mentioned monkeys and typewriters and I followed up on it. Obviously infinite means infinite but I'm not understanding what you're referring to that has an infinite amount of anything whether it be chances or time. Rolling a dice has a finite or limited amount of results that can easily be calculated. Religious or not we know the universe had a beginning right? So you you're not working with an infinite amount of time and as a result you don't have an infinite amount of chances. As the quoted part said, "and the statement that the monkeys must eventually succeed "gives a misleading conclusion about very, very large numbers."

We are working with the same evidence- people, the earth, the universe and everything within it. I'm not sure what being a creationist has to do with making scientific predictions. Being a creationist is a by-product of believing in a creator.

 

The cool thing about probability is that I could place a monkey in front of a typewriter and he could randomly produce Hamlet on the very first try.

 

But is this the only universe? Have there been an infinite number of them already formed, gone through their life cycle and died? Will there be infinitely more of them?

 

Sure you could. I could also win the Tennessee lottery every time they draw.

 

These are all questions that nobody has answers for but regardless wouldn't change the notion that this universe had a beginning.

 

But in that case, would it require one? Particularly a personal, caring God?

And one day we may have that answer. While not germane, the gravitational wave discovery confirming inflation (and this experiment needs to be repeated and scrutinized still) is incredible and shows we are thinking in the right direction.

At least till something shows otherwise, of course!

 

Are you asking if there were multiple universes would that require one God to create them all? My Christian perspective is that God is the creator of all things. Who's to say He hasn't created other universes?

 

The issue is that you saying there is a god in no way makes any predictive claims. Saying there is a god does not advance knowledge or understanding of the world around us. Contrast this with cosmology and physics, which just recently found the predicted background radiation signature from the Big Bang for example.

Your "no one knows if there [were] multiple universes" is a prime example of why I dislike religion. You say that as if that is a victory. "You don't know, and my faith renders the answer meaningless because god did it anyway. Checkmate, atheist." This is the same shortsighted and frankly ignorant thinking concerning evolution, continental drift, geologic time, germ theory, heliocentrism, etc etc etc that the religious have trotted out.

How does your position hope to answer this thing we do not know? It can't. Because it isn't a logical system.

How does science hope to answer this thing we do not know? By making predictions based on hypotheses, and seeing which ones hold up. It is much better to admit what we don't know (science) than to insist on something we don't know (faith).

Claims are not equal. The claim with predictive power that can confirm or refute the original claim is superior. The claim the claim of "but god" is useless in any practical or theoretical sense. I don't think I will change your mind, I am just amazed that with our access to history and information you don't see how silly this conversation is plain as day. Whether there is a god or not is irrelevant to any meaningful question about our world, yet the assumed answer to that irrelevant question is treated like a rosetta stone. It didn't put us on the moon. It didn't feed a billion new people in the 20th century. I don't see how it will solve any more problems than it creates now.

 

But if a multiverse were ever mathematically/experimentally proven to exist, would that cast some doubt on the validity of it all? Of course, you can reduce it all back to God made everything and be OK with that, and I would be fine with it as well. But the addition of a multiverse in addition to our universe, seems to me, to put a big dent in the idea of an all seeing, all-loving God behind the curtain. Particularly one as mono-attainable as the Christian/Islamic God (follow Jesus/Muhammad or you are doomed to eternal torment).

But, heck, our one planet does that for me, so I cannot truly say!

 

Can't we all just get along?

How about the universe is god

Not a white guy with a beard

 

Racist.

 

Nothing drives me crazier

Well, calling god a feudal lord is up there

 

If being out on a random arm of a random galaxy, Earth being one of countless planets randomly situated in the universe doesn't do it, I don't know why a multiverse would either. I suppose we are all the center of our own existences, so many folks don't really think about it.

 

Oh man, preach.

 

I honestly have no issues with people's religion, and mostly like to talk about the logic of it. The only issue I have is the fact that if I discuss evolution or cosmology with people, particularly here in the south, I feel like I have to have my head on a swivel and apologize or walk on eggshells. I am den leader for our local Cub Scout pack, and we were discussing the planets. One of the cubs asked if there was life on Mars and I said "Well, it could have evolved there early on." and I immediately looked over at the parents. I was sure some of them were about to throw a rock at me, but they never batted an eye. I was pleasantly surprised.

Pretty silly, really, but it is what it is.

I just don't want my kids to feel pressure from people to join a church, to believe certain (in my opinion) silly notions about sin and the afterlife or feel guilty for not believing.

EDIT: That said, I would love for a reformation of the monotheistic religions, removing the "this way or damnation" stuff, as well as the notion of Sin. I just find those to be to much like some kind of psychological abuse, particularly where children are involved.

 

Simply because "God" is not a sufficient answer for you concerning life as we know it does not mean it's not sufficient for anyone else. You're pitting science against religion and I'm not exactly sure what you're expecting as a result. It's not my intent to say anything that would provoke a "checkmate, atheist" feeling. He asked and I replied.

 

The Bible doesn't speak to other universes but it does speak to God being the author and creator of all things. I can't speak for others, but the possibility of other universes doesn't test my faith in the least.