I don't know how far we might get in any exchange, Eric, but in the moment that we can: 1. Please explain by what right an illegal alien has to any benefit or entitlement, from any level of local, state or the Federal government, so long as they entered and remain illegally? Before we get into the who gets what, and at any proportion, or who it helps, harms or is largely immaterial, determining who should be receiving anything seems like the best and most logical step. 2. What other laws do you also and similarly advocate being ignored, beyond any number of immigration laws? Might any state ignore Brown v Board, and segregate schools? How about banning abortion? May companies begin to simply ignore the EPA? OSHA? FMLA? Child Labor Laws? What if I really want to have sex with a man or woman - must I gain their positive consent? So, if I'm going to join you in your position, which is entirely predicated upon ignoring the rule of law, seemingly whenever it suits me or my own personal beliefs and/or aims, then let's figure out which others we may also ignore, when, and by what secondary standard. I'd like to do a lot of really illegal shit, and if you sweeten the pot enough for me, I can be swayed. 3. Do you think that providing any amount of entitlements to any number of illegals aliens - whether 99% or 1% - leaves more money, and a greater availability to help these poor white and black folks that you mention, or less? Simply, if we weren't spending 10% (your number) on illegals, might we be able to provide more to actual Americans, instead? 4. As to the VoTech line - do you think that it helps or hurts the poorest amongst (white, black, red, purple, whatever) us to have 20 million illegal aliens in this country, or not? Do you think their presence makes it easier for these poor Americans to find and maintain employment - you know, the only available path out of poverty, and which is known to exist - to compete against illegals who get paid under the table, with no benefits and at 1/2 or 1/3 of what the American would ask and require? What good will it do to churn out 10,000 more welders, when illegals have not only diminished the entire market, but have also diluted the worth of their labors? 5. Do you believe that our current use of illegal aliens for cheap, obligation-free and predominantly disposable labor is in any way akin to slavery during the antebellum South? If so or not, why?
Not if you value the rule of law over feelings, there isn't any other way than deportation and securing the border. I'm always curious as to why the amnesty / let'em stay folks aren't using their oft-insinuated and overwhelming majority to amend or outright erase many of these laws. If you don't want them to be deported, make a law that says that they can stay. If you want them to be able to traverse our border at will, again, why not just amend the law to allow for it? Could someone please explain to me why this can't all be amicably and fully solved via the long-standing, and readily available means of the Legislative action, and which the Constitution both permits and outlines? I really, really don't understand this, and need someone to explain it to me - particularly anyone who wishes them to remain, and the border unsecured.
There has long been an effort to legislate meaningful immigration reform, there just isn't a consensus as to which way that reform should go. We both know it is a political football that each party wishes to remain on the field for their own purposes. I do think a majority of Americans could form some sort of compromised consensus that would address the problem (example: my ilk concede on increasing border patrols/security, your ilk concede on an organized guest worker problem that encourages illegals to comply with for higher wages, we both agree to go down HARD on employers of illegal immigrants. Use immigrants as partners to find rule breakers. Just examples). We both know that elected officials do not benefit from solved problems. They do not. So they don't. They just play up our differences and form us into camps.
It seems unfair to deliberately ignore the law and then suddenly decide to enforce it. Also unfair to everyone else to continue ignoring the law. Our executive branch has failed us.
From the stand point of deporting I would agree. I don't think it unfair going forward that some were not able to cross before the gate closed while others did previously. The last part is dead on reaching through both parties.
I was thinking more unfair that we illegally allowed them to build lives for themselves here and now are going to decide it's seriously illegal and they have to go.
It, medicare and the military are the elephants in the room that no one wants to even talk about, yet they gobble up ~2/3 of the budget.
While this is a good point, I have to agree with Eric in that a large portion of students have no business following the College curriculum path when there is little chance they will complete a degree if they even enroll. They still have a better chance of earning an above poverty level wage with a viable trade.
Yep. Im all for our military and its members, but there is a lot of fat that can be trimmed and still maintain what needs to be.
It's a very agreeable point. As far as eric's use of it, the price of eggs in China is around 12.25 yuan as well.
yup. we know that wages for people without college degrees have fallen considerably over the last 20 years. in particular, compared to people with college degrees. clearly something needs to be done to make these people better trained and more economically desirable.
IP - this is as straight up genuinely sincere as anything I've ever said to you, and I mean every word of it. The Constitutional isn't the problem in this country. Crooked / bought politicians aren't the problem in this country. Lifelong politicians aren't the problem in this country. Illegal aliens aren't the problem in this country. Abortion isn't the problem in this country. Trump isn't the problem in this country. Neither is Cruz. HRC isn't the problem in this country. Neither is Bernie. Racism isn't the problem in this country. Classism isn't the problem in this country. Big business isn't the problem in this country. Neither is welfare. SCOTUS' Citizens United ruling isn't the problem in this country. The GOP & Dems aren't the problem in this country. The GLBT's aren't the problem in this county. Religion is not the problem in this country. Neither is atheism and agnosticism. None of the "problems" in this county are actually problems, at all. THE problem in this country is that we have more Americans than not who have given up, and have done so for so long, that we no longer find it even surprising, much less shameful. They've given up on the necessity of thought, reason, ideas, intellect and debate. They've given up on the government, on law and on the Constitution. They've given up on the POTUS, SCOTUS & Congress. They've given up on personal responsibility, and on our collective society. They've given up on compromise, on hard work and the call to sacrifice, when needed. They've given up on solving problems, and prefer feeling helpless, instead. They've given up on doing what's right, and only do that which feels good. They've given up on the complicated correctness, preferring the incorrect, so long as it's simple, comfortable and quick. They've given up on saying what needs to be said, and prefer not to hurt someone's feelings instead. Even as they die. We are an increasingly dumb, lazy, apathetic, unmotivated, near-sighted, illogical, narcissistic, love-me-some-me, what's-in-it-for-me, globs of spineless and brainless, Facebook-watching, lawsuit-filing, debt-building, demanding the unlawful in protest of the unjust, Honey Boo-boo DVR'ing, bunch of unmitigated bullshitters who are running ever harder and getting nowhere faster - and instead of even a hint of shame, they have the audacity to snap a selfie and celebrate the sheer uselessness of their lives. And that leaves what few of us who remain, holding the bag, and mightily struggling to do for ourselves and everyone else what we were all meant to share, together. It's up to us to figure it out, because we are surrounded by a hoard of absolute dumbass people whose number is legion, and growing shockingly larger and increasingly dumber by the moment - and from every conceivable direction and every walk of life. The problem in this country is "us".
The populace, in the form of informed and reasonable voters who demand an unwavering standard of excellence and accountability of every level of their government, have failed us. I'm tired of blaming President Obama and the rest - we've put them there and have allowed them to do exactly what they're doing, which is notify more than whatever it is that they please. They haven't feared the voter in decades, but now, they don't even care enough to fake and lie to us, anymore.
This is but one of any millions of problems that occur when the rule of law is ignored or usurped in any way.
That's fair, but I'm arguing that if illegal aliens are already taking jobs from those in VoTech fields - and they are - then simply trainjng more people to place in that field doesn't seem to solve anything. But the problem isn't only illegal aliens taking jobs, it's that we're making trade deals that allow millions of American jobs to be lost overseas, or our own companies to move elsewhere and without reprisal. I'm not stumping for Trump - but he is the only one who is even talking about the need to correct all three. And he's absolutely, inarguably, 1000% correct. And anyone (not you, RB) who is more offended by what he says, as outlandish as it may be, than by the fact that our own politicians and businesses have - and continue - to sell us out, is an indefensibly damned fool.* *RB - again, this comment is in no way directed at you / your post, but just the tangent I went on, instead.
You were saying? He's no different from any of the other 16 that started. He's just gets marketing/branding 1,000 times better and says what the people want to hear.
