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I have not served, and would feel awkward saluting. Particularly while not in a uniform. I could be wrong, but are you not supposed to salute if out of uniform? A serving member of the board can educate me on this.

 

Personally, IP, I agree with you. Im sure there are many stances on this among current and former service members. I'd rather the cinc just say thank you as he passes. There is a way to salute and I hate seeing someone lazily throw their hand to their forehead with no idea how to it. It's much more acceptable to me to just receive a polite thank you. This is strictly my opinion.

 

The person standing there was not offended by Obama's cup, W's dog, etc., because that's not why he's doing it. He's rendering the honor because it the correct and deserved honor to extend to the POTUS. His duty is to render the honor, alone, and not to gauge the worthiness of doing so by whether or not it is noticed or reciprocated. Case in point: the guards at the Tomb of the Unknown soldier don't leave their post, or conclude their duties, if no one is watching, or when the cemetery is closed to visitors. The entombed certainly wouldn't know if they did, or not. But they still stand the watch and walk the tomb, all the same.

Despite this, the President should at least acknowledge that honor being given to him, if only informally or in the fraction of a moment. So, do your quick, sloppy and laughably half-assed "salute" and be on your way. But at least try to give the appearance that those honors haven't become lost on you, and care enough to put your F'ing cup / dog down, just for a second.

To act like it's somehow worse because President Obama did it, or not because W didn't, is stupid.

They should reciprocate it for the same reasons it's given - because its good, right and proper to do so.

 

Why are these things mutually exclusive?

If W didn't care enough about the Marine standing there to put his damn dog down, how could you possibly believe that he cared about your grandfather, and other wounded and/underserved veterans. And if true for W, then the exact same can be said for Obama and his cup, too.

If they won't raise a hand to salute the military man in front of them, I somewhat doubt their sincerity to lend a hand to help other veterans, whom they'll neither ever see, or likely care about.

 

You are CNC from the swearing in.

You are not supposed to salute while out of uniform...but what is the President's uniform, exactly?

 

Well, that's why we are questioning if he should be saluting at all. He doesn't have one. Remember, this is a relatively new precedent. Washington, Jackson, Taylor, Grant, and Eisenhower, military men, didn't salute. The first to do so was Reagan, who did serve in the military. As did Bush Senior (who has an amazing WWII sub story of survival).

 

I believe the only sitting Pres to wear a military uniform was Washington when he took the army up to NY to kick some alcoholic behind. But that might just be an historical legend.

So I don't think the Pres actually has a uniform, per se. Which is why I assume they didn't return the salute until Reagan started it.

I have the utmost respect for those that serve/have served, and hope I am not coming across as flippant about this. Far from it. I think it was a breach of etiquette and hopefully will not be repeated. I also understand the President has a ton of stuff on his mind and if something slips from time to time, I cannot become too worked up about it. But I can understand a former military man/woman being upset.

 

Don't think of it as "saluting" in the military sense (we know that W and Obama aren't going to salute worth a shit) - instead, think of merely as a simple act of acknowledging the honor being rendered, which costs nothing and requires very, very little (almost no) effort.

 

The two can easily be mutually exclusive. The fact that someone doesn't care much about standing on protocol (especially a totally manufactured one such as this for the President) doesn't preclude him from having compassion or the backbone to do the correct thing for people who served.

I still agree with the others in that having the civilian authorities (a clear distinction from the military which was fully intended since the beginning of the republic) perform military duties like saluting or whatever is silly. The president isn't a soldier and purposely separated from that arena. It's play acting for the cameras and, almost, a mockery of the military establishment, in my opinion.

 

I agree such acknowledgement should occur, and that a coffee cup salute doesn't cover it, but I am just not sure a salute is the best way for a guy who spent his twenties as a community organizer or a play boy to do it. So I think we mostly agree. This was unacceptable, their office demands better.

 

It's not about being upset, really. It's not like that person or members of the military take great (or any) offense at it. Its likely vets who are more perturbed by it, but even then, the reasonable ones won't take it or read into it as far as IP and Un seem to believe / fear.

It's like common courtesy. The POTUS doesn't have to know all that the Chef does to prepare his meals, and doesn't have to personally thank them. He's going to continue getting fed, regardless. So, it's not the end of the world if the POTUS never tells the chef "good job" or "Thanks!". You'd hope he would, though, at some point.

Well, the difference is that the chef doesn't represent all chefs, and the POTUS can't demand the chef to devote or give his life at his orders, neither of which are true for that person at the bottom of those stairs.

The person at the bottom of those stairs, and all whom they represent in that moment, deserve some recognition of the honors they're rendering, however quick and informal - and with at least as much sincerity as to put your dog and/or cup, down.

 

We're reading too much into it? How did you come to that sort of determination? I know it's a common courtesy and Obama should have taken a split second to make some more effort to salute properly, but my positions is that I could give two shits about having a sense of outrage over this.

 

That's perfectly stated.

It's just a quick way to acknowledge the honors being presented. It doesn't matter how half-assed, civilian or not, etc.

And it's not just something that President Obama deserves to be held any more accountable for than any other President.

Like a few years ago, and President Obama was getting flack for not staying in DC to lay a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier over Memorial Day weekend - I think that the POTUS should absolutely do that, each year, and called BS on his not doing it. But then I looked into it and realized that W, Clinton, Bush 1 and even Reagan similarly skipped out on some years - and I circled back around to say that they were lazy ass-holes who should have also been there.

 

You've misread my post.

I said that it was VETERANS who are likely the most perturbed by it, but that even then THEY (VETERANS) won't read as much into his coffee-cup salute as you and IP believe of fear that THEY (the VETERANS) may do.

Basically, veterans are more likely to be irked about it, than anyone, but even they won't think its some calamitous failure, unless they're being unreasonable (i.e. As you feared, and they just hate President Obama and are looking to [itch bay]).

 

I didn't state that it was the veterans whom I thought would [itch bay] about this, moreso the section of the right wing who constantly seeks out any sort of detail to [itch bay] about daily. I've already seen a plethora of people [itch bay]ing about it today. I realize, though, it's the Outrage du Jour and will be replaced tomorrow with Obama scratching his balls during the pledge of allegiance or a new Kardashian sex tape or whatever.

 

I take more issue with aholes not removing their hats and showing some respect during the national anthem. If they're within reach I'll happily remove it for them.

 

Yeah. Or standing there blabbering or typing on their phones.

 

No, kidding. Shut the **** up for 2 minutes and realize the world is bigger than you.

Nothing is worse, though, than international soccer matches when the fans of a particular country will boo or whistle at the playing of the anthem (I'm looking at you, Mexico).

 

I've heard Americans and Canadians boo anthems at hockey games. Shameful.

 

Want me to ask a guy that was on Clinton's Marine One detail what Bill thought?