obama basically saying the rich got that way through luck or handouts

inherited wealth rarely lasts multiple generations. the kids of super wealthy people get used to spending a lot of money and not working for it. generally that is a recipe for burning through inheritance.

 

I said it earlier, those handed things rarely keep it.

Kim Kardashian's *** tape is the exception here.

 

Where are the Somali millionaires? Serious tax haven there.

 

Well yeah, it's hard for a young person to be a self-made rich man. Raising income taxes isn't going to make it easier, but that's off topic. Even young rich folk that aren't self-made, what's the problem? If their parents chose to invest in them, that is their prerogative.

 

Here you go

 

I'm not sure I follow you. Somalia is struggling because they lack resources and can't get a governing body to perform the basic functions a government is supposed to do, not because they lack a welfare program or something like that.

 

The rhetoric is that gov gets in the way of success

 

No it isn't.

 

even the most nutjob libertarians generally want money spent on police, fire, and roads.

 

Then you don't know what a nutjob libertarian looks like.

 

Riddle me this: when were taxes NOT too high in the last 60 years?

 

Who is complaining about taxes?

 

I think the line about business owners was poorly phrased, but I agree with the sentiment of his remarks. I also don't think it was particularly wise to make the comment during an election year, but I'm not sure it will affect those other than who are not going to vote for him anyway. I'm sure it will be used in a campaign ad or two.

Elizabeth Warren did a better job of explaining this position in explaining that every company relies on workers who were educated at public schools, drive to work on public roads,even things like receiving health care from public hospitals or doctors educated on public loans or schools and so on and so forth in the interconnected web.

To me, I saw it as a commentary on the idea set forth that you just need hard work and self-reliance and you will make it on your own. Those who aren't making it, therefore, don't possess those qualities and we don't have the right to demand anything in return from those who are successful because they did it solely on their own, which is false. Unfortunately, Obama was careless in his remarks, making people plausibly deduce he reduced the rich to having dumb luck, when it actually appears to me as a defense of the have-nots who work hard without the success of the rich.

 

i actually was active in the libertarian party until I realized a good % of the leadership was hoarding guns waiting till the "race wars" start.

never? fact remains that we already have a progressive tax system that puts the burden of taxes overwelmingly on rich americans. it's absurd to argue that group of all isn't paying it's fair share.

 

who is arguing the govt provides nothing? aren't corporate taxes payment for all these things?

So if they posses these qualities WHY aren't they doing well? No one is saying the rich "did it on their own" but what did they have that millions of others did not? All those things you mentioned are available for all americans. The question is why they did it and others did not and the reason certainly isn't public education and roads since we all have access to that.

 

Some are just more fortunate than others. Some fall to the whims of the market. My father was a business owner (auto repair stores), worked his ass off more than anyone I know and, from 2003-08, he was making six figures. Once the economic collapse occurred, he actually had one of the businesses he owned take down the other successful one, which was still solvent on its own. He lost his house and businesses and has worked to get back to a portion of that level since then. Obviously, owning businesses is part of the risk-reward varieties of the system in which we live within. However, his situation is a clear example of when being smart and hard-working isn't nearly enough. The same could apply to a number of family friends who have owned restaurants and other businesses that have been unsuccessful.

So, yes, I would agree that Obama should have stated that hard work and self-reliance are a prerequisite or desired traits for success in this country, but that those aren't the demarcation lines for success and failure.

 

If he's making six figures, why does he have a house payment? (this is a joke uni)

 

the overwelming majority of middle class americans havent started up their own businesses. it takes a special person to have that type of guts. the failure rate for new businesses, in particular restaurants, is rather high and you could argue isn't the "smart" thing to do. are there hardworking and brilliant people who aren't rich? of course. if the middle class filled to the brim with these individuals. of course not. arguing that the middle class and rich are the same and the only difference is the rich got lucky is bs and that's absolutely what he's arguing and it goes directly to his class warfare campaign.

 

Oh, it was a newer house that he had just put in a whole backyard set up with a pool and grill area. Really nice and he has a knack for the landscaping and that type of stuff that I don't. Bad timing to make such an investment with a new house, which he hoped the improvements he made would allow for a beneficial resale in about 10 years. Unfortunately, the economic crash that took his businesses was correlated with a housing crash that screwed him in both aspects. The fortunate part is that my mother has a solid job and cushioned the fall, but it shows the volatile nature of our economy.

 

But if you throw in the values of hard work, risk, self determination,etc, then it ruins three Obama agenda.