The NBA Thread.

I just hope nobody shines a black light near his Lebron fathead

 

Okay, now that's funny.

 

This is a round about way of pointing out James had more teammates total and more roster turnover. Dwayne Wade, who only played with him at the end of Wade's career, accounts for more than a fourth of those, by the way. Wonder how many of those are coming from older players coming off the bench now? 4 would be from Rondo. 8 is from Dwight Howard who played less than 20 minutes a game and was only on his team this year so far. So 3 players off the top of my head made up 25 of the 44, and none of them were remotely in their prime when he played with them. Like I said, it really only shows the degree of roster turnover he has experienced and the volume of different players he has played with, compared to Jordan's career.

What a disingenuous stat, shame on you.

 

Disingenuous, yet you didn't bother to do the Jordan side and tried to sell me on him playing with Wade at the end of D-Wade's career when LeBron went to Miami when Wade was 28? [uck fay]ing hell, man.

Just checking quickly for MJ, two of the dudes who were on all-star teams and played with Jordan were B.J. Armstrong and Horace Grant, who both had one after Jordan left for baseball. Another was Robert Parish in 1996, who was 43 years old. Then, you have Bill Cartwright, who had one in 1980, then was 32 in 1988 when he went to the Bulls, way over the hill based upon your D-Wade criteria. That leaves Rodman and Pippen. I think Jerry Stackhouse is in there, too, but how much the Wizards stuff counts, I don't know.

Plus, you went through just three of the guys of LeBron's 14 and tried to play it off as the entire story. Just on the Heat, Bosh had 11 and Wade had 13, so they were pretty loaded there. Ray Allen made one the year before he got to Miami and saved one of LeBron's titles. Kyrie had six, Kevin Love 5. Anthony Davis has 7, currently. All those guys are clear top level players of his generation, multiple all-stars and all done within a time frame of being on a team with James. Hell, even Rondo is younger than James. So, is Howard. They aren't completely washed up.

I'd say it's relevant, at least some consideration, right?

So, no. Shame on you. Dude, you come at me like this with half assed info? What gives?

 

Is the stat even real, or am I just reading it wrong? Google tells me 7 all star games for Pippen and 2 for Rodman. You then listed what, another 5 players? I’m no mathematician, but that sounds like more than 11 to me.

Either way, I agree with IP that the stat is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

 

Also, Wade has absolutely exited his prime when LeBron got to Miami, and the players don’t really fit very well together to begin win. LeBron needs to be surrounded by guys who can space the floor and shoot from the perimeter. D Wade was definitely not that.

Cowherd made what I felt was a good point today:

Jordan needed Pippen and the HoF coach to win. LeBron has won at least one championship with a wing, a PG, and a PF as his second best player. In other words, LeBron can make it work no matter who you give him as his 2. As long as the guy can play, LeBron will make it work.

 

And I’ve said this before but somehow it doesn’t get through. Rondo has literally been one of the worst players in the Lakers rotation for the last 2 years. Great playoff run, but he’s been legit awful otherwise.

Dwight Howard was their 2nd choice for their back up big man. Hardly a sought after guy anymore.

Allen was WELL past his prime when he went to Miami. He retired after his second season there.

 

Wade was 28 when James came to Miami. Don't sell me this bullshit he was out of his prime.

The second paragraph means only that a good sidekick is needed to win championships no matter how great you are or are you going to tell me Jordan couldn't win a title with a PF or PG all-star as his #2? Only Scottie Pippen was able to team with Michael to win six titles? No Karl Malone, David Robinson or Gary Payton? Yeah, ok. He didn't "need" Jackson, either. I'm sure it's super complicated to say "give the ball to Michael and get the [uck fay] out of the way", which is, basically, how 4th quarters went for Chicago in the 90s (Then, the same for Kobe and Shaq). It's a player's league and talent usually decides it. Jackson gets hired by the Suns and Knicks and he has no titles. The fact you are citing Colin Cowherd simply means this whole argument has rendered your argument to the absurdly silly range. He exists to entertain and get attention, not export pearls of wisdom.

The number of all-stars and their caliber most certainly is not meaningless, though. Under what sort of logic would it be? One which doesn't fit the paradigm you seek?

I will agree the numbers are a little off, though not too much, from my original relaying of info, though, but the follow up as I look closer tells a pretty decent story. LeBron has most certainly had better talent around him, particularly in Miami.

 

The best thing Phil did was not rely solely on MJ until the 4th quarters, then it was "go get'em".

 

And Phil the coach is overrated, but Phil the psychologist is probably underrated. He kept a lot of egos massaged

 

I'll break down this thread as the following:

Lobster!
Steak!
Lobster!
Steak!
Lobster!
Oatmeal!
...
...
Steak!
Lobster!
Steak!
Lobster!
Steak!

 

And let's be honest, at that level, that is all it is about.

 

now how many seasons did he play with Rodman and pippen? a bunch of the all star games are racked up by guys he only played with a handful of years. Jordan had stability.

 

LeBrobster

 

3 years and Rodman had 2 all stars to his credit. Jordan's second threepeat was an entirely new roster sans Pippen, too. But, stability? James left always in free agency, had his pick of landing spots and even convinced players to come with him. So, the instability thing is a bit misleading.

 

how is it misleading? one had the same [uck fay]ing coach the whole time and played for the same team for all the championships and even had a consistent teammate who was pretty damn good. you feel misled when comparing to a guy who played for, what, five different coaches? six? in 3 different franchises? with probably more than 100 different teammates?

 

Because James got to pick the exact situation he wanted to play. Would you rather be in a situation of your specific choosing or rely on the GM to pick up guys for you? He, Wade and Bosh orchestrated their playing together in Miami. I, actually, don't care they did, but the idea it hurts because of instability is silly. I'm sure Jordan would like to have hand picked two perennial all-stars and teammates from the Dream Team to form a superteam. And, again, it's a player's league. You get players, you win. This isn't college, the coaches are far more interchangeable and less influential on the outcome, which is why they move around so much.

 

he let MJ run the team and allowed the golfing, gambling and Rodman disappearances to happen as long as they played ball, which is more to do with why they won vs the triangle offense

 

I think Jordan would have rather beat you than join you.

 

LeBron chose to jump around as a free agent. He could have stayed in Cleveland and hand picked his coaches and teammates.

I'm not saying it's a mark against him, but he chose to go to Miami and play with his buddies and he chose to go to LA and chase a ring.