UCSD Speaker Asks Muslim Student to Condemn Hamas

Are all Palestinians also Muslims?

 

This is what happens when you create a state by taking land from someone and give it to another group because of the atrocities of a third party.

 

So, Hamas not only wantonly kills innocent Israelis, but purposefully puts its own innocent civilians at risk, too?

And they then kill / harm anyone who opposes them, even amongst the Palestinians, themselves?

If true, this makes the recent groundswell of left-leaning support even more curious, doesn't it? I can't imagine two groups who would seem more diametrically opposed, than these.

 

That certainly seems to be a perfect breeding ground for just this sort of thing, for sure.

But now what? Return the land? Kick everyone out? And if so, which group? They seem incapable of peaceful coexistence.

I don't know what's best, so I ask.

 

But, if the text that Jay quoted is true, and we'll operate as if it is, then the creation of a Palestinian state does not appear to be a viable remedy, that is, if Hamas' singular goal is the eradication of Jews.

Would these attacks simply stop, and the two sides peacefully coexist, if the Palestinians are given their own state?

 

It has nothing to do with doing what terrorists want, it has to do with doing what is right. It was said in this thread that they will not stop until Israel is destroyed. So how is doing this doing what the terrorists want? That doesn't make any sense, droski. Either argue that the terrorists don't Israel destroyed (good luck with that) or withdraw this lame "don't capitulate" stuff. It can't be both.

 

Not my chair, not my problem. I just don't feign indignation or outrage when perfectly predictable events unfold.

 

I very much doubt they'll just be happy with getting back the newly occupied territories.

 

So, the terrorists do want Israel destroyed? And do you consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization?

Why can't it be both that Hamas wants Israel to be destroyed, and that Israel should not capitulate to anyone holding such a position?

Those don't sound like mutually exclusive beliefs, to me. What am I missing?

 

Israel, for one. There is a wall encompassing the West Bank, for example. The Israeli Navy blockades the coast, and they are not allowed an airport. Further, as stated before they have no nationality so no one wants them. Not Jordan, not Egypt, not Lebanon, not Israel. So they're stuck.

"The Palestinians" are millions of people. Might as well ask why Americans don't stop listening to Nickelback. Just like most Americans don't listen to Nickelback, most Palestinians never take up arms.

I never suggested Israel should just suffer attacks. I merely attempted to show you how gray this situation is. How complicated it is. Israel just rolling over is no more practical than expecting the Palestinians to somehow root out the extremists amongst them. It just doesn't work that way.

Yes, I find the female's response to be racist and reprehensible, as well as naive. No, we should not tolerate such a view. Likewise, views that call the keffiyeh, a garment much older than the state of Israel, a terrorist garment is a bigoted and hateful remark the speaker made. Bet you didn't catch that one.

I would have no problem condemning Hamas, and would have asked if he condemned the death of Palestinian civilians in shelters the IDF had told them to go to, which happened 3 times this summer.

 

That seems like a reasonable approach.

Do you have any idea as to why Hamas is enjoying such a recent groundswell of support amongst our own left-leaning groups, here?

Do they share a common goal / vision? Because, from my (ignorant) perspective, they seem like impossibly bad bedfellows.

 

Here's your disconnection: Hamas and Palestine are not interchangeable. Not all Palestinians are Hamas.

 

Haven't thought about it and don't much care. The left has a history of choosing geopolitical "underdogs" and taking up their causes. That seems to be the case here. Netanyahu also strikes me as exactly the type of authoritarian leader that gets under liberal skin.

 

Why won't any of the Muslim nations take them in? Serious question - because if they want to leave, and Israel wants them gone, then it's just about finding a place to send them, right?

What should Israel do, if not segment those who wish to kill them, and to kill them, instead?

The swastika greatly pre-dates the Nazi party by many, many years - but any reasonable person would immediately associate someone wearing / displaying it as being Nazi / Skinhead / anti-Jew, etc. is this the same thing with her choice of kerchief?

I agree with your comments on the original video, in full.

Should the IDF be condemned for those errors? Are these the same types of things that Hamas is guilty of?

 

Ok, I'll correct that - thank you - so do all members of Hamas want Israel, and the Jews, to be eradicated?

Would giving them their own nation state prevent their future attacks and hostilities?

 

As fair and reasonable of an answer as I could expect.

 

Palestinians are a black sheep ethnicity, always have been. Partly because of their semitic ancestry, ironically. And it isn't that they want to leave the Levant, it is that they want the freedom to come and go as they please, and the freedom to settle and live in land that was historically (and even recently, pre-1960's) their land. Please consider that even though Mexicans and Central Americans are Christian, Americans aren't willing to let them immigrate en masse. For some of the same reasons. So please note that almost every question you asked actually reveals an assumption you had. Palestinians want to leave. Muslim nations should just take them because they're Muslim too. etc. Yet of course they want to not be confined to a small densely urbanized strip (strips), and of course replacing Muslim with another faith reveals how overly simplistic that question was.

It isn't that Israel should do something else, they just need to do a better job of segmenting and killing the right people. This summer, some will puff out their chests and see Israel's actions as being a triumph. In reality, they played right into Hamas' hands. You think Hamas cares about Palestinian civilian casualties? They think they're going to paradise with Allah. Any Muslim who dies is a martyr of the faith. Religious extremist groups are all invariably death cults of some sort, this is no different.

Are you saying there is a history amongst Palestinians like the Nazis? That doesn't really hold up to any scrutiny. I think everyone would agree Palestinians never had any power. Heck, some would argue they didn't truly exist until Israel did, as before they were an unbounded collection of semitic muslims living in the region, with no "other group" to distinguish themselves from. Hence the often repeated "there really is no such thing as a Palestinian" silliness you have probably heard before, as if the people just sprouted from the Earth from nowhere. But no, I would not compare a kerchief to a swastika, nor would I condone anyone calling a hindu or buddhist displaying that symbol a nazi. It would just make such a person ignorant of the full history of the symbol.

It depends on what one means by condemned. Like I said, the IDF and Israel must continue to search for a more permanent solution. Why do I say them? Because they have all of the power. Which is part of what keeps a group like Hamas going. The more the Palestinian Authority is made into a legitimate government through support and respect from Israel, the less influence Hamas will have. And Hamas knows this, which is why they start these militarily futile skirmishes in the first place.

 

Well, Israel and Jews are not synonymous. Definitely, all members of Hamas would like to see the end of the Jewish State, and are at least complicit (and often active) in violence to that end. That is not the same as wanting every Jew killed. I get the impression that many members of Hamas are so consumed by hate that they do in fact want every Jewish person destroyed. But there are some who explicitly only want Israeli Jews murdered. And some who just want them militarily defeated and subjugated/dispersed (essentially a reversal of the Palestinians' plight). It is safe to say Hamas are bad dudes who wish to murder at some scale or another, none acceptable. And yet look at the talking points of some Israeli hardliners (some of which are in power), and you'll see a similar rhetoric.

Lord no, Hamas having their own nation state would not satisfy them. They feel the whole area should be theirs and theirs alone. And yet the Palestinians not having their own nation state is what sows the desperation, hate, and fanaticism that keeps supplying Hamas with people.

 

Why not? That's what was done with Israel in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

I'm not being serious, but let's not kid ourselves that the Israelis don't have their own sordid history and benefit from their "legitimacy" as the state in that area to operate in the fashion that they do.

Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. are all pieces of shit, too, however, they are at a decided disadvantage and are responding to very real human rights violations by the Israeli government. The fact that we allow Israel to run rampant and give half assed condemnations when Israel steals another piece of land for a settlement in the Occupied Territories and forces the average Palestinian in to a refugee camp reminiscent of an apartheid era South African township, is also a big part of the problem.

 

Exactly.

This has nothing to do with dirt and everything to do with death.