Should All Votes Count, Equally?

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by Tenacious D, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    First, it's merely a theoretical concept, sincerely asked.

    Should all votes count the same? While one vote / one person is excellent at forming a majority, what is inherently correct / good / fair / right / reasonable about that? We've discussed any number of issues where the majority opinion isn't always correct - and sometimes, can be just flat wrong. And usually, we don't struggle to form a consensus that "might" does not always perfectly equate to "right", if even at all. And what is a majority but a measurement of "might", ultimately?

    Suppose you were in a room with 100 people who were tasked with planning the construction of a new building that we would each inhabit, once built. Now suppose that it was agreed to determine the awarding of that task based on a simple majority vote. What would happen if myself and 48 others wanted JG to build it, believing him best qualified, but 51 others preferred Indy, because he had promised larger bathrooms, and despite having no experience with construction of any kind. Why is it correct that Indy be allowed to construct that building, at both the behest of - and risk to - the entire community?

    Mix up the example however you want:

    Use Card and taxes, BPV in fighting a war, RB/OV in pleasuring several harems of women, IP and anything science-y, TennTra and anything math-y, or NYY and anything involving 2-3 minute stands in public restroom facilities.

    Does this make sense?

    So, it raises the question: Should some votes count more / less than others?

    I'm (honestly) not leading this anywhere,to any set conclusion, as a means to raise a larger GOTCHA question, nor am I advocating thay anyone should actually not be allowed to vote / trying to overthrow democracy, being racist, etc. - so try not to worry with where it lands - but purely focus on the question, itself.
  2. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    In true government fashion, hypothetical Indy starts building it, runs out of money then hypothetical me gets to come in and finish, naming my price to do so.
  3. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    I've often thought about this sort of thing. I don't have a good answer.
  4. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    All votes have to count equally, because the real evil would come from getting to decide the value otherwise.

    I wish the president was totally based off of popular vote though.
  5. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Put Custom Title Here

    As Volst53 says, you have to have it equal. Otherwise you will sieve right down to a dictatorship.
  6. lylsmorr

    lylsmorr Super Moderator

  7. Savage Orange

    Savage Orange Mr. Hot Take....

    There are some things that need to be addressed though, such as proving citizenship. The system is susceptible to fraud, which means that in effect, votes already don't count equally. Military proxy voting comes to mind as one area that can (and probably has been) gamed... Dead people supposedly being able to vote and other examples of the sort undermine the integrity of the system.

    The electoral college is another discussion altogether.
  8. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    And - this is not the "point" of my posting this topic, but it just occurred to me, so I'll ask this as an addendum to the original question, as I think it's a valid one:

    Aren't we essentially doing this now, both in the primaries via "Super" / "Unbound" Delegates, and in the general election via the Electoral College?

    If you have no realistic chance of winning a general election for the presidency (and you don't, at least thus far) without being affiliated to either the Dems or GOP....and they essentially limit your choices in the general by the means of their own primaries....then it seems that some (Super / Unbound delegates) already have a much greater singular influence - a more valuable vote, if you will - just as things now stand?
  9. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    Btw California having the same number of senators as Rhode Island is ridiculous.
  10. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Put Custom Title Here

    Perhaps, but it is the whole point of the Senate. Protection against the Tyranny of the Majority.
  11. Savage Orange

    Savage Orange Mr. Hot Take....

    Maybe if we had some super DUPER delegates this mess could get straightened out....
  12. rbroyles

    rbroyles Chieftain

    Pleasuring the harem, again!!?? That is all we ever get to do.
  13. rbroyles

    rbroyles Chieftain

    Correct, and the Congress gives proportionate representation.
  14. Savage Orange

    Savage Orange Mr. Hot Take....

    I'm becoming more convinced with each election cycle that if voting really mattered or made a difference we wouldn't be able to do it anyway....
  15. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    The things you discuss are extremely rare, far rarer than you realize.
  16. Savage Orange

    Savage Orange Mr. Hot Take....

    That wasn't what folks were saying when Bush "stole" the election from Al Gore... Granted, dead folks voting and proxy voting would make up a minuscule percentage in a national election but in local elections that can and have been decided by a handful of votes the potential for chicanery is definitely present. I do think you ought to have to prove citizenship to be able to vote and I believe the percentages of ineligible voters influencing elections is much greater than dead folks voting and such. Not really sold on electronic voting machines being programmed to throw out votes. Seems tinfoil hatty and whatnot...
  17. tvolsfan

    tvolsfan Chieftain

    If there was proportional representation in the senate, there wouldn't really be much need for it at all.
  18. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    Well, when the voters were counted Al Gore won the popular vote. Later, it turns out he actually won Florida as well. What happened there were votes actually being discarded. Not the same as dead people voting, voter fraud, etc. Election fraud is not the same as voter fraud.

    For example, what happened in Brooklyn yesterday was election fraud, not voter fraud.
  19. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    You are asking for a world of corruption if you start that process. Corruption in deciding who gets more voting power and then corruption in buying that person's vote.
  20. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    And yet, they could be easily eliminated, or at least drastically reduced, but there's raging opposition.

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