The Great Bathroom Debate

**** kids that think they should get money for their education because we don't want to confuse them with boys dressing like girls and pissing in the same bathroom.

 

Presumably IP isn't still acting like people are going out of their way make the status quo a huge issue.

 

Here is my good friend Dr Charlie Anderson's take. Some good points imho

HOW FAR DOWN THE ROAD TO ABSURDITY?

I find it amazing how far we have traveled down the road of scientific absurdity in pursuit of a political goal—the early indoctrination of children to pathological ideas about gender. The Supreme Court apparently never discussed the concept of transgender with a scientist, a biologist, a psychiatrist, or any physician. This Court bought into two scientific falsehoods. A person can change gender OR choose gender.

Maleness and femaleness are determined by sexual chromosomes. If you have two X chromosomes, you are female. If you have XY chromosomes, you are male. This identification of gender is science. It is not about religion, feelings, thoughts, wishes, fantasies, or left-wing political agendas. No matter how a person mutilates his/her body, or how he/she dresses, or how much makeup he/she wears, that person cannot change gender. A person who is male but wants to be female is having abnormal thoughts. A thought disorder is a form of mental illness, in this case, gender dysphoria. Some mentally ill people hear voices. Some have overwhelming urges. Some people have no thought control. Some have overwhelming depression. Some have delusions.

Thinking that one can change his gender is a delusion, something not based on fact. Eight or nine people in black robes cannot change the biological basis of gender. Lots of people with mental illness deny that they have a thought disorder. In fact, this is the most common defense mechanism. I’m sure that these unfortunate people were happy to hear that the impossible was possible through the manipulation of civil rights laws in the courts. Most of them will be casualties of their abnormal thoughts.

We don’t know nearly enough about people who have the urge to be something they are not, but this is what we do know. Many young people pass through stages of gender dysphoria and happily assume their biological gender without treatment, counseling, or drugs. Chasing a fantasy of switching genders is rarely the road to happiness. Most adults can recognize many things that are exiting or feel good for a while, but are self-destructive. This is the patient with gender dysphoria. Since the goal of changing genders is unattainable, the patient is headed for a downer. In the end, the gender dysphoric patient is most likely to be dissatisfied, depressed, or suicidal—not feeling accepted by either gender, unable to overcome his/her chromosomal destiny.
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An unhappiness with one’s body is not a cause for civil rights. It is not a courageous act to mutilate your body for an unattainable goal. It’s tragic. I fear for Caitlyn Jenner, as well as all those misguided people who bought into his fantasy and made a celebrity out of him. Attempts to surgically change one’s gender do not result in happiness for these people. For this reason, many university hospitals no longer perform the surgery. In fact, those who actually have surgery are twenty times more likely to commit suicide. Is this really surprising? A person whose mind is at war with his body is unlikely to win anything.

So here we are with a president and his ridiculous executive order, adding political and economic pressure to achieve his political goal of indoctrinating our children with abnormal ideas about gender. As usual Obama’s goals disrupt our culture. In this case he is asserting that we WILL agree that a person can change his gender, regardless of the scientific absurdity of the idea. We WILL knuckle under to the agenda of the GLBT lobby or he will take away federal money for public schools. The Federal government never had any business in public schools. To advance this agenda Obama is willing to sacrifice the security and privacy of every child who goes to public schools for the farcical goal of helping a few people with mental illness live out their fantasy to their own detriment. I expect more attempts by him to divide Americans before he is finally gone.

The Supreme Court never thought about enforcement of transgender politics. Formerly, we could recognize black people and females. That’s how we have defined discrimination against them, by color or gender. A fake black person is not entitled to special civil rights based on color. Why should a male be entitled to civil rights protection as a female? Not in a rational world. If adults cannot determine if a person is a man or a woman, how can a child be comfortable about a sexually confused person living out a fantasy in their face? If a person can change his gender simply by self-identification, we have created a monster that could disrupt all school activities, all sports, every child’s privacy, and every child’s sense of security—for a left-wing political agenda based on lies?

 

Sometimes the y chromosome is not activated and while the person has an XY chromosome, they look and are in all ways female. Ergo his whole premise is faulty.

 

I'll run that by him.

 

Be aware I am a layperson reading lay articles.

 

the federal department of education is a waste and does way more harm than helping public schools IMO.

 

Here is his response, Charlie Anderson, "He is the second person to use a one in 10 million occurrence of an abnormal combination of x and y chromosomes to justify transgender. He missed the point entirely. It doesn't matter how you look or act. If you are xy, you are male. Period. Pigs fly about as often as super rare chromosomal abnormalities explain transgender. A person looking for an excuse to justify his behavior will always find one."

 

What are his views on homosexuality? Epigenetics? Womb hormones? Again, I am a layperson, but his absolutism seems to be based on a presumption and not evidence.

 

I lack the words to even partially describe my absolute disdain for this Administration, and it's path of least resistance usurpation of the Constitutionally required checks and balances, which is paved with nothing but lies, disloyalty and deceit.

And anyone who votes for four more years of this bullshit, is an inexcusably damned fool.

But, as a Trump supporter, I say - keep those Executive Orders a'comin'. As many as you can write, Barack.

 

Yep, All more the reason not to vote for HRC.

 

I agree with this view. The convoluted idiocy being espoused by this clown amazes me. I don't get to be a girl and use their showers because I think I should. My opinion of me doesn't change what I am.

 

Norris, why do you think it is absolutist to think that the human race, and every other animal species, is comprised of male and female, and that the raer few who fall outside that classification represent abnormalities?

 

Can I be on your side?

 

We are learning more and more everyday about the brain and its make up. MRI machines and other breakthroughs have really changed how we look at the plasticity of our most important part of what makes us human.

To discount this simply because "you have a Y chromosome and you are a man" is just not defendable knowing what we know. We are suffering from a false sense of duality, a lot of which stems from our being raised on Adam and Eve stories. I know when I was not much younger than I am now that I struggled with it. But upon further investigation, I was surprised to learn that we humans are quite malleable.

Epigentics and the effect if mother's hormones on the fetus greatly affect the fetus' brain. Why is it so hard to believe that a person can be genetically female but feel, think and act like a man? Thus his statement is absolutist which flies in the face of what we know.

IMHO as a layman.

And a side editorial, I don't understand why people care. No one is making you get a sex change. And why does it make you uncomfortable to the point of taking a stance against it? Is it harming you? Are they happy? If so, can you not be happy for them too?

 

Should ask ol Charlie how often hospitals do a genotypic test when determining sex for purposes of birth certificates. (You don't have to ask him, it's rare. It is all about phenotype (the outward appearance), not genotype (the actual chromosomes) and always has been.). That's why we call Charlie a male, not a XY.

We are actually just now making it about genotype.

 

What is it I'm taking a stand against, again?

I don't care if someone wants to get a sex change. I don't care if a person identifies as female but was born a male. I don't care who someone likes to **** (which, again, seems like an entirely different issue to me) or love or cuddle on the weekends. I do think that a society, like the state of NC, should be able to separate bathrooms and locker rooms by sex and have some reasonable standard of deciding what that means that is not solely reliant on self-identification, you know, as it has been done in every society mankind has ever known since the beginning of time.*

In NC's case, they use the gender identified on the birth certificate. If a person decides they have transitioned to another gender, THEY CAN HAVE THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE CHANGED. While this is not the standard I would use in my own personal kingdom, it does seem reasonable to me. What it doesn't do is allow a person to swap back and forth whenever they want without having to change their birth certificate, allow people with "male" on their birth cert in the little girls' room, or force cheerleaders to change clothes with the wrestling team. The main argument people seem to have against my position is that I shouldn't mind, and my mother or wife shouldn't mind if any of those things happen, and we are consequently all lousy people for minding. Transexuals, however, are lovely people in need of protection precisely because they mind having to go into a bathroom that might be different from the one with which they identify.

So humans may be malleable, and fetal hormones may do something, and if the definition of the word includes that view, I may be a bigot. But I think it is friggin' ridiculous to outlaw separate boys and girls rooms and pretend it is because of some sort of transexual rights issue.


*I'm not really an expert on every society in the history of mankind, as I'm just a layman. I do, however, have working knowledge of a whole bunch of them, all of which have recognized that humans come in "boy" and "girl" and decided bathrooms accordingly, so I extrapolated.

 

I didn't state that you in particular where saying anything. My reply was mostly in reply to Randy's friend, whom you were appearing to defend. I personally don't care if you like or dislike anyone. You seem a nice enough fellow, so I am sure you don't have much hate in your heart at all.

NC requires a physician performing the sex change operation to send a notarized statement that the procedure was done before a birth certificate can be changed.

Here are the standard requirements to attain said procedure:

Mandatory Prerequisites for Gender Reassignment Surgery (GRS/SRS)

A true transsexual with gender dysphoria
Surgery recommended by 2 mental health specialists trained in gender identity issues.
Hormone treatment for at least one year.
Living “true life” test for a minimum of one year.
Emotionally stable
Medically healthy with any medical conditions being treated and under control.

Now, you have to live life as the other sex for one year. Dress like one, look like one. Yet, requiring a birth certificate change would still have this person go into the other bathroom. I think it is just not as black and white.

And just so I am clear, I am not advocating that anyone can wake up one day, claim I am a female and walk into the women's room looking like Al Bundy. Nor does it allow for transvestites to go into the opposite gender bathroom. It should be pretty clear if they belong in the bathroom or not.

 

I understand your position, but many people are advocating that.

 

Many are also saying that usually that sort of thing doesn't happen with transsexuals. Usually being important there, but not when discussing what happens 99.9% of the time with gene expression.